Automatic commit of irc logs

[ipdf/documents.git] / irc / #ipdf.log

--- Log opened Mon Mar 17 12:20:15 2014
12:20 -!- matches [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
12:20 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
12:20 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 0 secs
12:20 -!- sulix changed the topic of #ipdf to: Angry Strawberry Summer
12:20 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by sulix
12:39 <@sulix> This is sensible discussion about the project.
12:39 <@matches> The suspense
12:39 <@sulix> Anyone up for lunch?
12:39 <@matches> Yes
12:40 <@sulix> drumroll...
12:41 <@matches> I don't think it worked
12:42 <@matches> Yes I did it manually
12:42 <@matches> Maybe cron is broken on motsugo
12:43 <@sulix> We shall find out next time at 12:40, I guess.
12:43 <@sulix> (Or the next time cron emails errors out, maybe)
12:52 <@matches> Let the record show that it didn't work because I didn't install the crontab
--- Day changed Wed Mar 19 2014
10:59 <@matches> Some guy asked me if he could use the whiteboard, so I let him rub out our timeline
10:59 <@matches> And all he did was write "hello world"
10:59 <@matches> >:(
19:10 <@matches> Testing
19:25 <@matches> So the IRC commits should have a different author
19:25 <@matches> So that I don't get a ridiculous number of daily IRC commits
19:26 <@matches> I could rebase the first three of them but I think that might break things
19:45 <@matches> Ok, and now it will only commit when there is more than one new line, so we won't get one every day when no one says anything
19:54 <@matches> Alright, and in theory
19:54 <@matches> If I spam this some more
19:54 <@matches> There will be a commit soonish
19:56 <@matches> Any second...
19:56 <@matches> Yes
19:56 <@matches> Now that is sorted out I can attain maximum productivity
19:56 <@matches> (Sorry)
--- Log closed Mon Mar 24 01:12:25 2014
--- Log opened Mon Mar 24 08:40:12 2014
08:40 -!- matches [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
08:40 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
08:40 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 3 secs
13:26 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
13:27 < matches> Uh oh
13:29 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
13:31 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
13:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
13:40 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
13:40 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
16:19 < matches> Well that will make a nice automatic commit
--- Day changed Tue Mar 25 2014
21:33 < matches> So, I am pretty much free all day tomorrow
21:33 < matches> Also Thursday
21:34 <@sulix> I'm pretty busy Thursday, but I'm free all tomorrow so long as I can get some maths done at some point.
21:34 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by sulix
21:35 <@matches> I'm supervising a test from 2-3pm but that's it
21:35 <@matches> So, I will try and get to UWA as early as I can
21:35 <@matches> It might be a good idea to have some kind of start on a code base
21:35 <@matches> Even though we're supposed to be focusing on a literature review, I don't really like not having any code done yet
21:36 <@sulix> Yeah. I agree.
21:36 <@sulix> Code + fixing git stuff + preparing for this "talk" on Friday.
--- Day changed Wed Mar 26 2014
11:32 <@matches> I am in the super secret room
11:36 <@sulix> Okay, I'll head in shortly. Had a small "parents fell for a scam email and entered passwords on dodgy websites" crisis here this morning.
11:37 <@matches> Oh dear
11:42 <@matches> The phone is ringing :O
11:43 <@matches> Phew, it stopped
22:42 <@matches> I think I have a way to do tests in the Makefile without using cmake
22:42 <@matches> You can alter a variable for a target
23:20 <@matches> Well, that ended badly
23:21 <@matches> With me erasing my own Makefile using make
23:21 <@matches> :P
23:24 <@sulix> Better than erasing the source code, I guess.
23:34 <@matches> This is why we have git
--- Day changed Thu Mar 27 2014
00:15 <@sulix> Crazy templated loading and saving!
00:15 <@sulix> And now for bed!
00:30 <@matches> Well
00:30 <@matches> It doesn't break the test
01:22 <@matches> We now have an arbitrary precision float
01:22 <@matches> Where in this case arbitrary precision means I have no idea what the precision is but it is very bad
01:35 <@matches> Ok I think I made a half precision float
01:35 <@matches> They are quite bad
01:36 <@matches> Um, I can probably make a graph of it being terrible as my contribution for Friday
01:36 <@matches> Assuming I've done it right
--- Day changed Wed Apr 02 2014
09:41 <@matches> Dammit codejam is coming up again
09:41 <@matches> There goes productivity
09:42 <@matches> If you are not busy this afternoon we should do work
09:42 <@matches> On the project I mean
09:45 <@matches> Although it is tempting to just practice codejam problems for the next week
12:44 <@matches> If I work on the project it will help when the inevitable "64 bits is not enough" problem comes up!
12:45 <@matches> Maybe
--- Day changed Sun Apr 06 2014
13:40 <@matches> I get the feeling my part of the project could just be "typedef Real to something from boost"
14:15 <@matches> I suppose I could talk about FPU and hardware
--- Day changed Mon Apr 07 2014
21:42 <@matches> I had a horrible horrible thought... implement a FPU in VHDL and then somehow run all our floating point operations on it :P
21:42 <@matches> (This is not a good idea at all but it might be fun)
21:42 <@matches> You know, for some definition of fun
21:44 <@matches> So my lit review will probably be 1) We need higher precision documents because science (Pixels or Perish) 2) This is how FP works in hardware 3) This is how you can get higher precision in software
21:45 <@matches> Oh, and 4) Document formats and rendering them (PDF/PostScript etc)
21:46 <@matches> That is starting to sound suitably ridiculously broad?
21:46 <@matches> Can always cut things out I guess
21:47 <@matches> To reflect what we actually end up doing
22:05 <@sulix> From what Tim was saying, I don't think "too broad" is a possibility.
22:05 <@sulix> We could be talking about Aztec history and it'd probably not be "too broad."
22:05 <@sulix> I do need to remember to read "Pixels of Perish," though.
22:19 <@matches> I'll have a look into VHDL stuff, there seem to be compilers and simulators for linux
22:20 <@matches> For a minute I was afraid I'd have to use the UWA EE VHDL environment
22:20 <@matches> Which is like, running a Java program in a Windows XP VM
22:20 <@matches> I heard you liked simulations of hardware so I simulated some hardware in your simulated hardware
--- Day changed Tue Apr 08 2014
10:46 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mits.mits.au.uniirc.com, services.uniirc.com, irc.cassa.au.uniirc.com, mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
10:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
11:31 <@matches> The "Experiment Running" sign seems to have worked
11:31 <@matches> Also open source VHDL stuff is less "actually compiles" than I had hoped
11:32 <@matches> The two I've tried so far seem to generate absolute monstrosities of C or C++ files and then fail to compile and/or link
--- Day changed Wed Apr 09 2014
15:27 <@sulix> So I've been hitting my head against my desk for about half an hour trying to work out where some bugs were in some ipdf code I'm writing.
15:27 <@sulix> Turns out to have mostly been precision issues due to the lack of precision in your Real data type.
15:28 <@sulix> Switching it to double fixes them all.
15:32 <@matches> Oh
15:32 <@matches> Sorry
15:37 <@sulix> Nah: it's good. It means that precision actually is important!
15:37 <@sulix> (I was getting a little bit concerned for a while :P)
15:40 <@matches> Well
15:40 <@matches> I have rediscovered just how awful VHDL is
15:41 <@matches> It seems like you can't define anything without typing it three times
15:42 <@matches> You define an entity
15:42 <@matches> Then you define a component with identical ports
15:42 <@matches> Then you tell it to use the entity for that component
15:42 <@matches> Then you tell it to map the identical ports to the entity ports
15:42 <@matches> adder_0 : adder port map (a=>a, b=>b, cin=>cin, s=>s, cout=>cout);
15:44 <@matches> Pretty much all the hardware papers I found talk about using VHDL for things
15:46 <@matches> Let's see if I can make any sense of this jop-devel thing that appears to be a JVM implemented in VHDL
15:47 <@matches> Uh oh, .bat files
15:48 <@matches> This looks ominous
15:51 <@sulix> The whole swapping out main thing breaks the makefile in a few ways btw.
15:51 <@sulix> Because none of main.cpp's dependencies are listed.
15:51 <@matches> Ah
15:51 <@sulix> So if you change main.h, nothing gets recompiled.
16:02 <@sulix> Okay, just pushed support for click+drag and zoom in and out in the viewer.
16:03 <@sulix> (I did change the default precision to single, rather than half, as zoom out was totally broken with half-precision)
16:05 <@matches> The half precision implementation is broken itself anyway
16:07 <@matches> Hmm
16:07 <@matches> I can't seem to compile anymore
16:07 <@matches> Hang on
16:07 <@matches> That would be because `uname -i` reports "unknown"
16:12 <@matches> I have made unknown default to x86_64 :S
16:13 <@matches> I can see the precision issues! Good work
16:14 <@matches> These lecture notes seem useful: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~demmel/cs267/lecture21/lecture21.html
16:14 <@matches> Lecture notes > Blog post in terms of suitable reference?
16:16 <@sulix> It's got fortran in it, it must be suitably acedemic.
16:18 <@matches> Haha
16:18 <@matches> The VHDL compiler I am experimenting with uses Ada
16:18 <@sulix> I'm getting my fill of new languages by trying out some c++11 features.
16:20 <@sulix> I think I broak realtofloat by changing things to be single precision by default.
16:22 <@sulix> (Hopefully fixed)
16:49 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
16:49 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
16:54 <@matches> What's with the netsplits
16:55 <@matches> You're on mussel? I'm on mantis? They are VMs on the same host?
16:55 <@matches> I don't know what this uniirc nonsense is
16:56 <@matches> What is "arctic"
16:56 -!- matches changed the topic of #ipdf to: Happy Bannana Netsplit
17:33 <@matches> Well I compiled the VHDL FPU
17:33 <@matches> It seems to work quite well
17:33 <@matches> Except for the part where it never actually finishes an operation
17:34 <@matches> One of the virtual transistors must have overheated
17:43 <@matches> Oops it might help to actually give it a valid operation
18:27 <@matches> Alright, so I'm going to experiment with getting our Real operations to run on the virtual FPU
18:28 <@matches> Then I can look into both hardware and software ways of getting arbitrary precision.
18:30 <@matches> VHDL appears to have text I/O so I could make everything read and write from pipes, but this seems like a terrible idea
18:30 <@matches> On the other hand the compiler is using Ada
19:21 <@matches> Oh wow
19:21 <@matches> To open stdout
19:22 <@matches> You pass it a string "STD_OUTPUT" for the filename
21:40 <@matches> Ok, I give up trying to link this thing
21:40 <@matches> fork() and exec() is seeming more and more elegant
22:11 <@matches> Nooo, buffering
22:11 <@matches> Ok, screw this
--- Day changed Thu Apr 10 2014
00:00 <@matches> Note: Actually exec'ing the program instead of just going straight to "exit(EXIT_FAILURE)" is generally important
00:00 <@matches> Wall of text commit message incoming
00:01 <@matches> Horribly inefficient interface to virtual FPU sort of implemented
00:02 <@matches> I would have made it based on binary read/write rather than hex strings but I could not work out how to do that in VHDL
00:08 <@matches> I still can't believe what I have just done, it seems ludicrous
00:08 <@matches> Using an entire executable and stdio operations
00:08 <@matches> To do a floating point addition
00:10 <@matches> You should see how much is involved in compiling the VHDL FPU...
00:11 <@matches> I'm very pleased that it actually compiled from the version in jop's github without much effort, but still
00:11 <@matches> It's like 30 object files
00:11 <@matches> This is why it isn't in the code repo
00:19 <@matches> Whoops, there are some blatantly wrong comments in vfpu.cpp
00:19 <@matches> Oh well
--- Day changed Fri Apr 11 2014
13:38 <@matches> Warning! I am about to make a ipdf/vfpu repo
13:43 <@matches> You know what's really cool
13:43 <@matches> You can run it as `vfpu --vcd=output.vcd`
13:43 <@matches> And it will create a gtkwave file as it runs showing all the operations
13:44 <@matches> You only get the simulated time from the point of view of the device
13:44 <@matches> Which is probably useful
13:46 <@matches> Or it would be if I wanted to compare different devices
13:47 <@matches> To do that I need to actually make different devices...
17:12 <@matches> Would you prefer seperate repos for the individual reports or just sub directories in the documents repo?
17:12 <@matches> I can't decide
17:12 <@matches> On the one hand 5+ repos is getting a bit out of hand
17:12 <@matches> On the other hand they are individual work
17:24 <@matches> Individual seems best
20:31 <@matches> Hmm
20:31 <@matches> The sqrt op in the fpu appears to have been commented out
20:31 <@matches> Also despite having constants for the sizes of things they have just used magic numbers everywhere
20:34 <@matches> I need an IRC script to prevent myself from saying stuff unless someone else has said things, or this channel will just be me ranting
--- Day changed Mon Apr 14 2014
13:42 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
13:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
14:42 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
14:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:32 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:34 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:36 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:40 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:41 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:41 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:45 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:45 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:46 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:47 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:54 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
18:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
18:59 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:00 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:03 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:07 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:08 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:10 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:13 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:13 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:15 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:15 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:17 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:18 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:21 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:22 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:23 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:23 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:26 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:26 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:27 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:29 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:30 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:32 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:35 -!- sulix [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
19:35 -!- ServerMode/#ipdf [+o sulix] by mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com
19:40 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:42 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:44 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:48 -!- sulix [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
19:48 -!- ServerMode/#ipdf [+o sulix] by mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com
19:54 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:54 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:54 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:54 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:55 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:56 -!- You're now known as 13VAAAAGJ
19:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> Why am I now known as 13VAAAAGJ
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> ARE WE UNDER ATTACK
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> Oh crap this is #ipdf
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> Um, disregard this bit of the totally project related conversation
19:57 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> I'd edit the commit script to censor the swear words, but effort
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> Oh dear
19:57 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
19:57 <@13VAAAAGJ> Hello
19:58 <@13VAAAAGJ> I think mantis might be dying?
19:59 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:00 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
20:01 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:01 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
20:04 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:04 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
20:05 <@13VAAAAGJ> Sigh
20:07 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
20:08 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:08 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
20:08 -!- Netsplit mantis.ucc.au.uniirc.com <-> arctic.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:09 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
20:09 -!- Netsplit arctic.uniirc.com <-> mussel.ucc.au.uniirc.com quits: @sulix
20:10 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @sulix
--- Log closed Mon Apr 14 20:11:29 2014
--- Log opened Mon Apr 14 20:18:05 2014
20:18 -!- matches [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
20:18 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
20:18 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 0 secs
22:04 < matches> Ergh
22:06 < matches> http://szmoore.net/ghdl.bug
22:06 < matches> Pretty
22:10 < matches> Looks like we'll be sticking with ASCII input files for the FPU
--- Log closed Mon Apr 14 22:29:33 2014
--- Log opened Mon Apr 14 22:44:34 2014
22:44 -!- matches [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
22:44 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 1 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal]
22:44 -!- sulix [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
22:44 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 12 secs
22:53 <@matches> Someone's VPS was compromised and killing our network
22:53 <@matches> For reference
22:53 <@matches> It affects this project because
23:07 <@matches> Argh
23:07 <@matches> So I thought I was being really clever
23:07 <@matches> I had files of type "bit" and everything
23:07 <@matches> Guess how a "bit" is represented...
23:08 <@matches> It's an ASCII "0" or "1"
23:09 <@matches> I guess I will just conclude that ASCII strings treated as hex is the only way
--- Day changed Wed Apr 16 2014
00:10 <@matches> I'm either about to perpetrate horrible things on your nice View class or give up and go to sleep
00:28 <@matches> Yeah... the problem is if we want to overlay objects rendered using different precision's over each other
00:28 <@matches> It leads towards templates
00:29 <@matches> And templates lead towards fear
00:29 <@matches> And fear leads towards anger
00:29 <@matches> And anger leads to hate
00:29 <@matches> I think
00:29 <@matches> Saving an image
00:29 <@matches> Recompiling the program
00:29 <@matches> Overlaying the image
00:29 <@matches> Is going to lead to less hate
00:30 <@matches> Otherwise pretty much every occurance of "Real" needs to be come a template
00:50 < sulix> So there are a couple of problems with doing that.
00:51 < sulix> - You'd need some way of storing objects of different precision. Possibly an extra "high-precision bounds" struct.
00:51 < sulix> - View also uses real for its internal bounds, which is where many of the problems appear.
00:52 < sulix> (I guess you could have a "high-precision viewport" as well.)
00:52 < sulix> - The actual upload of graphics data to OpenGL is done as 32-bit floats, no matter the type of real, as that's all OpenGL supports.
00:53 < sulix>   (At some point we'll have to actually do some view transforms on the CPU rather than just passing all of the bounds and viewport straight to OpenGL)
01:02 <@matches> Yeah I don't want to replace Real with templates
01:02 <@matches> That'd be horrible
01:03 <@matches> By the way, the introduction of SDL_Renderer in SDL2 is confusing
01:05 <@matches> I thought it was replacing Surface with Renderer and Texture
01:05 <@matches> But Surface seems to still be a thing
01:13 < sulix> Yeah: basically Surfaces are in CPU memory, textures in GPU memory.
01:13 <@matches> Right
01:14 <@matches> And renderers magically put stuff on surfaces/textures
01:14 < sulix> Yeah.
01:14 < sulix> So it basically represents the graphics card.
01:15 < sulix> But if you want to just use OpenGL yourself, you don't need to create a renderer at all.
01:15 <@matches> Ah, but the plot thickens
01:15 <@matches> I'm saving the window to a bmp
01:16 <@matches> Which requires a renderer
01:16 < sulix> Hmm... I'm not sure if that will work.
01:16 <@matches> It does
01:16 <@matches> It seems rather convoluted though to be honest
01:16 < sulix> (In theory, it shouldn't, but it probably actually does)
01:16 <@matches> I seem to remember it not being this convoluted in SDL1.2
01:16 <@matches> -_-
01:16 <@matches> So the procedure is
01:17 <@matches> 1. Get a surface associated with the window
01:17 <@matches> 2. Allocate buffer of unsigned char for the pixels
01:17 < sulix> Yeah, TBH I prefer SDL1.2's rendering API, but I generally just use OpenGL anyway.
01:17 <@matches> 3. Get renderer from the window (NB: Don't use SDL_CreateRenderer, only the (undocumented) SDL_GetRenderer works because the Window already has a Renderer because it has been created with an OpenGL flag)...
01:18 < sulix> In theory we should probably use glReadPixels.
01:18 <@matches> 4. Use the magical renderer power to put pixels into the pixel array
01:18 <@matches> 5. Create an RGB surface from the pixel array
01:18 <@matches> 6. Now you can call SDL_SaveBMP, congratulations
01:18 <@matches> What's this about a glReadPixels
01:18 <@matches> I was just about to commit this
01:19 < sulix> Well, you can use glReadPixels instead of steps 1,3 and 4.
01:19 < sulix> (This is what SDL is doing behind the scenes)
01:20 < sulix> Unfortunately, the SDL wiki is still down thanks to heartbleed. :/
01:20 <@matches> :O
01:20 <@matches> It was up when I looked at it before
01:20 <@matches> Throwing python exceptions when I tried the search function though
01:21 < sulix> Ryan said that it was up, but I'm still getting revoked certificate errors.
01:22 <@matches> Hmm, I needed to do step 1 in order to know the size of the pixel array in step 2...
01:23 < sulix> Screen::ViewportWidth(), Screen::ViewportHeight()
01:26 <@matches> Yeah this is looking a lot shorter than what I had
01:33 <@matches> It doesn't seem to work though
01:35 <@matches> I'm getting a segfault
01:35 <@matches> And of course valgrind automatically exits when it gets more than 1000000 errors from the flgrx driver
01:38 <@matches> First call to glReadPixels is OK but the bmp is just white, second call segfaults
01:39 < sulix> Hmm... what's the call?
01:44 <@matches> Segfault was due to me forgetting about the pixels needing 4 bytes for RGBA
01:44 <@matches> Still white though
01:45 < sulix> (That was going to be my guess)
01:45 <@matches> The advantage of getting the SDL_Surface
01:45 <@matches> Was that you just pass all the surf->format->format->stuff
01:45 <@matches> Everywhere
01:45 <@matches> Also makes it rather verbose
01:46 < sulix> The white screen might just be an fglrx bug.
01:46 <@matches> There we go
01:47 <@matches> No, it helps to remember that the pixels need 4 bytes for RGBA
01:47 <@matches> I have very selective memory
01:47 <@matches> I had to remember it for each line individually
01:47 <@matches> Right I guess it is slightly nicer now
01:47 <@matches> Although it has a bunch of magical "*4" everywhere
01:48 <@matches> I'm going to put this on Stack overflow as an alternative to the answer I was originally following
01:48 < sulix> Well, I'm going to attempt to sleep...
01:48 <@matches> Thank you for fixing my bug without seeing it :S
01:49 < sulix> I have far too much experience breaking glReadPixels...
01:53 <@matches> We need an easy way to compare our document rendering the same thing using a different Real and/or view representation
01:53 <@matches> Templates would only solve changing the Real and really they probably wouldn't actually solve it
01:53 <@matches> They'd just create nightmares
01:53 <@matches> Hmm
01:55 <@matches> Um
01:55 <@matches> Just looking at View::Render
01:55 <@matches> Why is there a seperate loop for each type of object...
01:56 <@matches> With "continue" statements for the other types in each loop
01:56 <@matches> Is this so you can just make one call to glBegin and glEnd...
01:56 <@matches> I am suitable scared
01:57 <@matches> suitably scared and also suitable scared
22:05 <@matches> Ok, trying again. This is the sort of thing a template is supposed to be used for... I just seem to always end up suddenly having to make everything all the way back to Document into a template class :S
22:07 <@matches> blergh
22:07 <@matches> trying again
22:07 <@matches> After getting coffee
22:07 <@matches> I think
22:30 <@matches> Ok, templates is way too complicated
22:30 <@matches> I am going to do the following instead:
22:31 <@matches> 1. Allow a "save this region to bmp" argument
22:31 <@matches> 2. It reads the specified bmp, saves a new bmp with the current view overlayed in a different colour or something
22:32 <@matches> 3. Makefile hacks to recompile the program using a different typedef of Real and then do 1. and 2. for them all
22:32 <@matches> 4. Realise I probably should have used templates
23:02 <@matches> So, according to my timeline that I haven't looked at since submitting the proposal, I will have done a draft literature review by tomorrow...
23:02 <@matches> Hah
--- Day changed Thu Apr 17 2014
00:26 <@matches> I am not good at OpenGL/SDL
00:26 <@matches> I am the master of producing a black screen
00:26 <@matches> Also we have FILLED and OUTLINE the wrong way round still
14:01 < sulix> Bunch of bugfixes incoming.
14:01 < sulix> I'm not proud of what I did to glReadPixels, but it works.
14:02 <@matches> Uh oh
14:02 <@matches> I just worked it out!
14:03 <@matches> The dreaded merge begins
14:03 <@matches> I'm tempted to just delete my changes and merge yours but I should probably do a real merge
14:04 <@matches> I fixed it (on my machine at least) by: Using GL_BGRA instead of GL_RGBA (should probably detect which one to use from the screen's format)
14:04 <@matches> And calling glReadBuffers and glPixelStorei before glReadPixels
14:05 < sulix> glPixelStorei is probably nicer than what I'm doing.
14:05 < sulix> I tried just giving SDL a negative pitch and a pointer to the bottom-right corner of the buffer, but somehow it didn't like that much.
14:07 <@matches> You do actually check the byte order which is good
14:08 <@matches> I worked that out but basically just changed it to match my machine :S
14:08 < sulix> There are a bunch of endian problems in the load-save code anyway if we want it to run on big-endian machines.
14:09 < sulix> (Well, big-endian documents don't load with little-endian code and vice-versa)
14:10 <@matches> http://szmoore.net/ipdf/code/src/screen.cpp
14:10 <@matches> Is the merge
14:10 <@matches> Which one is better?
14:11 < sulix> I think yours will still get the bitmaps upside down?
14:11 <@matches> Ah yes they do tend to be upside down
14:12 < sulix> I'm not sure you should need the front buffer stuff anymore with mine, so if you just keep mine (which is doing the flipping), everything should work.
14:12 <@matches> Woah you fixed the FILLED vs OUTLINE
14:12 < sulix> I did test overlaying bitmaps and it was fine.
14:12 <@matches> Good
14:12 <@matches> Does this seem like a better way to compare approaches than using a template and having View<float> View<double> etc?
14:13 <@matches> It means recompiling
14:13 <@matches> But it means a lot less templates
14:13 <@matches> Pretty much the entire thing has to be templatified that way
14:13 <@matches> And then there's the issue of what type the document is saving with
14:13 < sulix> I think, long term, it'd be worth just extending the view to have a "bounds" and a "high_precision_bounds" or something.
14:14 < sulix> But that is kind-of ugly.
14:14 <@matches> I think it's probably nicer to just have real.h contain nothing but a typedef
14:14 <@matches> And just recompile with a different typedef and overlay the images
14:15 < sulix> Yeah, but there are some artefacts that really show better in motion, so it's probably worth supporting that at some point.
14:15 <@matches> True
14:15 <@matches> But including a video in the pdf will be difficult anyway
14:16 < sulix> (Clearly, we should add embedded videos to ipdf)
14:16 <@matches> You could also make a movie using ffmpeg
14:16 <@matches> Haha
14:16 < sulix> (I've got some OpenGL video playback code somewhere...)
14:17 <@matches> In fact, if you can output a video you can just overlay two videos
14:17 < sulix> Oh... my... god!
14:17 <@matches> I don't know if there's a better way to make a video but I'd just be saving a .bmp every frame and then combine them all with fmpeg
14:17 < sulix> Nope, that's probably a good way.
14:18 < sulix> With some MAGIC it wouldn't even be slow.
14:20 <@matches> Whoops your code isn't giving me a second bmp anymore
14:20 <@matches> At least, not one that has pixels that aren't white
14:20 <@matches> Does my glReadBuffer thing work for you?
14:21 < sulix> Hmm...
14:21 <@matches> Can fix the upside-downness some other way
14:21 < sulix> Did you make clean
14:21 < sulix> Because main.cpp/main.h won't recompile otherwise.
14:21 < sulix> And I moved the glClear() calls.
14:22 <@matches> I did make clean
14:22 < sulix> Which is a less hacky way of solving the problem than reading the front buffer.
14:23 <@matches> So the problem is that the texture rendered by Screen::RenderBMP isn't in the buffer that glReadPixels reads from?
14:23 <@matches> (Even though it gets shown on the screen fine)
14:25 < sulix> Hmm... it works fine here with or without glReadBuffers.
14:27 < sulix> Try changing it to save the screenshot before calling scr.Present() in main.h
14:29 <@matches> That works
14:29 <@matches> But why?
14:29 < sulix> Because when you call Present(), it allocates a new buffer to render into.
14:30 <@matches> Right
14:30 < sulix> This is so that you can start rendering the new frame immediately, rather than having to wait for the window manager to actually re-render the screen.
14:31 <@matches> I have merged it
14:33 < sulix> Excellent.
14:33 < sulix> This is much more fun than literature!
14:33 <@matches> :S
14:35 <@matches> It's important
14:35 <@matches> It's part of the timeline
14:35 <@matches> Just you know
14:35 <@matches> It comes after the Literature Review
14:37 < sulix> Strictly speaking the Lit Review deadline is past, now, isn't it... :/
14:38 <@matches> Well technically it was never a deadline for me... :P
14:38  * sulix sighs
14:38 < sulix> I'm special.
14:39 <@matches> I need to read that last paper on FPUs more
14:39 <@matches> It was talking about how there are all these software techniques from the 1960s that can actually be done on the FPU itself
14:40 <@matches> I'll probably just work on getting our / jop's FPU working for different sized floats instead
14:40 <@matches> In theory that will teach me how they actually work
14:40 <@matches> Then I can actually understand the papers
14:40 < sulix> But can you write about it in a Lit Review?
14:42 <@matches> Maybe not so much the Lit Review, but it means I can write the Background section that explains how they work
14:43 <@matches> There's probably some early papers on them that I can reference at the same time if I try hard enough to find them
14:44 <@matches> The modern papers all have a lot of assumed knowledge
15:59 <@matches> Instead of reading papers I have progressed towards compiling different types and then overlaying them
16:02 <@matches> I didn't know you could do such cool things with Makefiles and flags to the compiler
16:02 <@matches> If people knew more about this maybe we wouldn't have to have python
16:03 <@matches> I will learn to do all my highlevel programming using Make
19:48 <@matches> Our Render/Screenshot combo for overlaying bitmaps and $$$ only works the first time it is done
19:49 <@matches> Or maybe it's RenderBMP that only works once
19:49 <@matches> Hmm
19:52 <@matches> I swear the format was BGRA earlier and now it's RGBA
19:53 <@matches> This can probably get fixed after some Literature Review
20:09 <@matches> Anyway you can now set the type of Real with `make DEF=-DREAL=X`
20:09 <@matches> Or `make single` and `make double`
20:09 <@matches> 0 and 1 respectively
20:09 <@matches> I tried a little bit too hard to get it working with actual C strings
21:32 <@matches> Minutes now have less "~*" in them
21:32 <@matches> Wrong channel
21:32 <@matches> Very wrong channel
--- Day changed Mon Apr 21 2014
12:32 <@matches> Literature Review O'Clock
12:36 < sulix> I have just returned from my Easter holiday and have some horrible code for you to scream at while I have lunch. :P
12:43 <@matches> Uh oh
12:44 <@matches> stb_truetype ?
12:44 <@matches> DejaVuSansMono.ttf ?!
12:44 <@matches> Is this going to render a font...
12:45 <@matches> Woah
12:47 <@matches> Looks good
12:48 <@matches> I think I will avoid looking at stb_truetype too closely...
12:48 <@matches> Too late
12:48 <@matches> Why are all the implementations in the .h file
12:48 <@matches> And the .cpp file just has some defines...
12:48 <@matches> shudder
12:53 <@matches> I particularly like #define STBTT_assert(...) do {} while(0)
12:53 < sulix> That's a standard way of doing that. SDL_assert does the same thing.
12:54 < sulix> It lets you put a semicolon after it or use it in an if() statement without braces, etc, without things breaking horribly.
12:56 <@matches> But... your assert doesn't actually assert anything?
12:56 < sulix> That's because you generally only want it enabled in debug builds.
12:56 <@matches> I guess
12:57 < sulix> So typically you'd have it as do {} while(0) in release builds, and something like a function call in debug builds.
12:57 <@matches> So what is this "more code" going to do :P
12:57 < sulix> Slightly more modern opengl.
12:58 <@matches> Yeah, that would be a good idea
12:58 < sulix> In particular, uploading the content of a document to a VBO, and just re-rendering from that when needed.
12:58 <@matches> Cool
12:58 < sulix> Jumps from 9 fps -> 37 fps with 1024^2 objects.
12:59 < sulix> I've been without internet, though, so it's pretty broken in many ways, still.
12:59 < sulix> Like outline rects don't work.
12:59 < sulix> And it still uses a bunch of OpenGL 1.0 stuff.
12:59 < sulix> And for some reason the glPrimitiveRestartIndex() function isn't working.
13:00 < sulix> Also I need to write shaders at some point, which will be work.
13:00 <@matches> I just found the best comment in an IEEE email list
13:00 <@matches> We should totally use it
13:01 <@matches> "It is too late now to repair the mistakes of the past that are present in millions of installed systems, but it is good to know that careful research before designing hardware can be helpful"
13:01 < sulix> Oh man, that's basically the thesis in one sentance.
13:02 <@matches> Dibs!
13:02 <@matches> Although I doubt anyone will care if we both quote it
13:03 < sulix> One thing I did discover reading my OpenGL book is that I think we can get OpenGL to use doubles with some shader hackery.
13:03 <@matches> :O
13:03 < sulix> Then again, the book was (partly) written by (one of) the authors of fglrx, so take it with the requisite salt.
13:04 <@matches> Ah, so how many goats were required?
13:05 < sulix> Just the two, I think.
13:06 <@matches> This email message seems sort of vaguely relevant? It's the "infamous double rounding problem"
13:06 < sulix> I take it that you worked out how to swap between CPU and GPU transforms with right-click.
13:07 <@matches> I read it in the commit message
13:08 < sulix> I was quite happy with how much nicer things ran with CPU transforms and doubles.
13:08 <@matches> I think I can see a difference zooming in far enough
13:08 <@matches> Yeah that's a huge difference
13:08 <@matches> I had a tester that was going to automatically make images of the difference when you zoomed in really far
13:09 <@matches> But there were issues with the screen shot / bmp rendering
13:09 <@matches> Probably the bmp rendering
13:09 < sulix> .bmp files suck.
13:10 <@matches> They are nice and simple though?
13:10 <@matches> At least, the SDL API is nice and simple
13:10 < sulix> That's more a triumph of SDL than of the .bmp file format.
13:10 <@matches> After looking through gm6 files with a hex editor to try and extract sprites...
13:11 <@matches> Well we could always just fwrite the pixel buffer and fread it back
13:11 <@matches> If you want no one to be able to use our files without compiling our program :P
13:12 < sulix> I'm personally a fan of LodePNG, but I'm too lazy to hack it in at the moment: http://lodev.org/lodepng/
13:13 < sulix> I'm probably going to get around to fixing all of the warnings in stb_truetype one day.
13:13 <@matches> Haha
13:13 <@matches> What about implementing an Oct-tree?
13:14 <@matches> So .bmp is just a header and then the raw pixel data? What's disgusting about that? No compression?
13:16 <@matches> Wait png is also just a header and then an IDAT section
13:17 <@matches> Oh well you can put lodepng in if you want I guess
13:17 <@matches> As long as I can open the images in eom
13:18 <@matches> Ah so PNG is compressed. I missed that
13:19 <@matches> Meh
13:19 <@matches> Oh and alpha channel
13:19 <@matches> Yeah
13:19 <@matches> I remember that now
13:20 <@matches> xpaint is the least shitty of the shitty sprite editors in debian, but it only stores RGB because it was designed around bmp and I guess they just hacked on exporting to other formats later
13:21 <@matches> If you open things with alpha it gets really confused
13:23 < sulix> You can put alpha in .bmp files, but then they sometimes crash KDE.
13:26 <@matches> We can just run all our bmp files through image magick
13:26 <@matches> convert a.bmp a.png
13:26 <@matches> Done
13:27 <@matches> Hmm, maybe if I opened the data from the gm6 files as png they would work, I was assuming they were bmps -_-
13:27 <@matches> Actually gif
13:27 <@matches> Probably
13:28 <@matches> Since it has "Save as gif"
13:28 <@matches> But that is not relevant to this project
13:33 < sulix> Damn, just discovered that the opengl feature I was using for rectangle outlines is not supported by my laptop's hardware.
13:34 < sulix> (This explains one of the bugs I've been seeing, but sadly only one)
13:47 < sulix> Okay, remaining code pushed.
13:47 < sulix> I am sorry.
13:53 <@matches> I'm messing around trying to do something evil so I'll merge later
13:53 <@matches> But you don't seem to call ToggleGPUTransform when there is a right click
13:54 <@matches> Oh wait, I need to make clean
13:54 <@matches> Cool
13:54 <@matches> (So much for our Makefile magically tracking the header files :S)
13:58 < sulix> It does it for every header file except ones included by main.cpp because of the weird main.cpp swapping stuff.
13:59 <@matches> That main swapping stuff is amazing
13:59 <@matches> It is worth it
13:59 <@matches> Except main.cpp ends up eventually including all the header files
14:00 <@matches> I think there is an alternative Makefile that just has every single header file in the current directory as a dependency for each .o file
14:01 <@matches> But I'm normally used to running make clean anyway
14:22 <@matches> Eh I was going to make a video of the difference between GPU and CPU coord transforms but it's not that great
14:23 <@matches> Whatever you have done does not look happy
14:24 < sulix> It takes like 5 minutes to DebugDumpObjects with a million objects, but it works okay* after that.
14:24 <@matches> Yeah ok
14:24 < sulix> *well, sort-of.
14:25 < sulix> If you just want to show off the precision, getting rid of most of those objects is probably the right thing to do.
14:25 <@matches> Interesting things happen when you zoom out really far
14:25 <@matches> Do we care about that
14:25 < sulix> I'm going to go with "no".
14:26 <@matches> Ah, but the rectangles are not all the same size
14:26 < sulix> This is a product of rounding to the nearest pixel. They'd be fine with antialiasing.
14:29 <@matches> I have pushed a single line contribution
14:29 <@matches> I decided not to bother with all the changes I made to make the video prettier
14:29 <@matches> Since I can't actually capture my desktop properly anyway
14:30 <@matches> I suppose I could make it render bmps and ffmpeg them all but that is way too much effort
14:31 <@matches> So
14:31 <@matches> Literature Reviews
14:31 <@matches> They are a thing
14:38 <@matches> I probably should not reference an email thread
14:53 <@matches> In other news, I think this jvm FPU doesn't actually implement sqrt
14:57 <@matches> It always gives 0x0 on sqrt ops
14:57 <@matches> I certainly hope there isn't a jvm somewhere that just doesn't do square roots
14:58 <@matches> They probably hacked it into some other part of their project instead of putting it in the FPU
16:08 <@matches> So fprintf style formatting isn't very clever when it comes to floats vs doubles vs long doubles
16:11 <@matches> Eg: %lf will work for either floats or doubles and %f will work for either floats or doubles (by truncating) but %llf is the only thing that works for long doubles and it only works for long doubles
16:12 <@matches> s/truncating/casting whatever
16:52 <@matches> We can compile with long double
16:52 <@matches> I suspect this may break things but whatever
16:52 <@matches> Running calculatepi on motsugo to see how much difference it actually makes...
17:08 <@matches> Charles Babbage seems like an interesting fellow
17:09 <@matches> "e sought to prove the
17:09 <@matches> reality of the devil by drawing with his blood a
17:09 <@matches> circle on the floor and repeating the Lord’s prayer
17:09 <@matches> backward"
17:09 <@matches> The things one does for science
17:44 <@matches> Reading about Charles Babbage counts as Literature Review...
17:44 <@matches> Actually I'm trying to find a paper written *by* him
17:44 <@matches> Since apparently he came up with Floating Point representations
22:11 <@matches> Found an actual paper talking about floating points on GPUs
22:12 <@matches> It says they don't conform to IEEE and also the manufacturers don't like to tell people what they do do
22:12 <@matches> So they wrote a version of Paranoia, which was a test program for computers in the 1980s before IEEE, to work out the characteristics of flops on various GPUs
22:13 <@matches> This is probably of interest
22:14 <@matches> So far one of the best papers I have on algorithms in software is actually one talking about implementing those algorithms in hardware instead
22:15 <@matches> I also have a random obituary to Charles Babbage just because
22:16 <@matches> Unfortunately UWA directs me to some useless website that just tells me the citation details and doesn't give me a download for any of Babbage's papers
22:17 <@matches> He has some books but they are mostly about economics
22:18 <@matches> Would have been nice if he'd written something that says "I have invented floating point" but I guess not
22:18 <@matches> That's only really of historical interest but it'd be nice
--- Day changed Tue Apr 22 2014
01:17 <@matches> Urgh looking at the git diff
01:17 <@matches> I really have not accomplished much
01:30 <@matches> Oooh, motsugo finally got to a number of intervals where long double is better than double
11:56 < sulix> So it turns out that I've broken the open-source GL drivers.
11:56 < sulix> They don't support one of the features ("primitive restart") we need when in compatibility mode.
11:56 < sulix> So I guess now I've got to rewrite everything to use OpenGL 3.
14:47 <@matches> ?
14:48 <@matches> I should probably look more carefully at what the OpenGL stuff is doing nowdays
14:49 <@matches> Downgrading to OpenGL 3 sounds drastic
14:50 <@matches> Wait 3 is the OK one, 4 is the new one
14:50 <@matches> 1 is the ancient one
14:52 <@matches> I see pointer arithmetic...
14:53 <@matches> banana would be furious
14:53 <@matches> should be using std::super_ptr_unsegfaultable_arith
14:53 <@matches> (I am not a fan of the smart pointers)
14:55 <@matches> *indexData = 0xFFFFFFFF; // Primitive restart.
14:55 <@matches> I do not know what is going on here :S
14:58 <@matches> Ahh I get it now
14:58 <@matches> Reading commit messages turns out to be useful
15:04 <@matches> git blame for view.cpp reveals that I still own the opening braces on some things
15:05 <@matches> That's about it :P
15:06 <@matches> I'm going to keep looking at rounding errors and maybe have a better thing than calculating pi
15:06 <@matches> As a bench mark
15:07 <@matches> I might look at Paranoia
15:07 <@matches> Although it was originally in BASIC
15:07 <@matches> And ~7000 lines
15:07 <@matches> With almost no whitespace characters
15:07 <@matches> And totally no indents
15:08 <@matches> I sometimes get the feeling people used to be smarter than we are now...
15:08 <@matches> Then I remember that those people are ultimately responsible for the tools we use now
15:15 < sulix> Speaking of tools we use now, I think I've just got the debug font code to not only randomly corrupt a varible, but also cause valgrind to crash.
15:18 < sulix> Okay, we need to fix that makefile at some point.
15:38 <@matches> make clean?
15:41 <@matches> It's not actually swapping out main.cpp
15:41 <@matches> It just doesn't have main.o in the link objects and has main in the $(BIN) target and the testers in the tests/% target
15:42 <@matches> I guess that is swapping out main but MAIN is not being changed
15:42 <@matches> derp
15:45 <@matches> I think I fixed it?
15:45 < sulix> Ah. Well, you've got a merge conflict to look forward to.
15:45 <@matches> Not if I just NEVER COMMIT IT
15:46 <@matches> I'm going to call your fix being right and mine being a horrible hack
15:46 <@matches> Ok I pullsd some changes to graphics stuff, is that it or is there more?
15:46 < sulix> I haven't fixed it, I've just gone and bu(gg|ff)ered up the font stuff.
15:47 <@matches> So it's not meant to render unless something changes? But the debug font stuff is changing so it needs to keep rendering?
15:48 <@matches> I see a lot of "Flushing Debug Font arrays"
15:48 < sulix> The debug font stuff is separate from the whole view system.
15:48 <@matches> That makes sense
15:48 < sulix> It's just trying to fill up a buffer of quads with individual characters in it and then draws them when the buffer gets full.
15:49 < sulix> One more step on the path of getting rid of all of the OpenGL 1.1 stuff.
15:50 <@matches> Haha
15:50 <@matches> git stash seems to think I modified graphicsbuffer.h and screen.h
15:51 <@matches> git diff seems to think everything is identical
15:51 <@matches> I'm just going to git reset the things I didn't actually change...
15:52 < sulix> I do that far too often.
15:52 <@matches> Oh there is a comment "//test" for testing the Makefile
15:53 <@matches> And a comment "This isn't the Screen class?" where you copy/pasted the screen class description for the GraphicsBuffer class
15:53 <@matches> I don't think they need to be preserved
15:54 < sulix> Yeah, I should have got rid of that screen class bit by now.
15:55 <@matches> Have a 2 line commit
15:55 < sulix> The best kind.
15:55 <@matches> I really need to cut back on the new line creep
15:56 <@matches> It's like I can't add a line by itself without putting in extra whitespace 
15:57 <@matches> Uh oh we've ran out of coffee here
15:58 <@matches> I'm slightly scared by how much the graphics code has increased since I last actually understood how it worked...
15:59 <@matches> Can you change those *vertexData to *(vertexData++) or is that considered even uglier
16:03 < sulix> I thought of that, but given how much pointer arithmetic debugging I was going to do, I wanted it to be really obvious when the pointer was being incremented.
16:03 < sulix> The plan is to have a nice AppendFloat() function or similar that will do this eventually.
16:05 < sulix> Hmm: "Buffer usage warning: Analysis of buffer object 2 (bound to GL_ARRAY_BUFFER_ARB) usage indicates that the GPU is the primary producer and consumer of data for this buffer object. The usage hint supplied with this buffer object, GL_STATIC_DRAW, is inconsistent with this usage pattern. Try using GL_STREAM_COPY_ARB, GL_STATIC_COPY_ARB or GL_DYNAMIC_COPY_ARB instead.
16:06 < sulix> Thanks nVidia.
16:06 < sulix> Now if only we were using OpenGL 4.4 which got rid of buffer usage hints entirely.
16:29 <@matches> Also I think you forgot the naming scheme :P
16:30 <@matches> vertex_data
16:31 <@matches> I will go back to pretending to be doing a literature review
16:32 <@matches> Instead I will probably plot some graphs
16:48 <@matches> So
16:48 <@matches> If you look up "Handbook of Floating Point Arithmetic" on google (which lots of things like to reference these days)
16:48 <@matches> You can download the entire thing
16:48 <@matches> I was prepared to pay like $20 for it on amazon
16:49 <@matches> Oh amazon doesn't sell actual books anymore though does it?
16:49 <@matches> No they do have it
16:50 <@matches> For $100...
16:50 <@matches> I think I'll just stick with my free pdf thanks
16:55 <@matches> "Handbook" being 579 pages...
17:04 <@matches> I think if a textbook is citing blog posts we can probably get away with it
17:05 <@matches> Oh my god I love this textbook
17:05 < sulix> I was watching a conference talk last night when the presenter just said: "this technique is described on this guys blog. Here's a link."
17:05 <@matches> "Table 1.1 gives the results obtained by compiling Program 1.1 and running on a Pentium4, using the GNU Compiler Collection and the Linux system"
17:06 <@matches> [Complete C code for Program 1.1 follows]
17:06 <@matches> None of this "Pseudo code" crap
17:07 < sulix> Clearly we should get an extra 10% for every line of pointer arithmetic in our theses.
17:07 <@matches> There'
17:07 <@matches> s a problem here
17:07 <@matches> How do I not make the entire literature review just paraphrased from this one text book
17:08 <@matches> Mr Gullible and the Chaotic Bank Society!
17:08 <@matches> It has stories!
17:08 <@matches> Parents should read this textbook to their children
17:09 < sulix> I'm pretty certain I know someone with a data structures and algorithms picture book...
17:09 <@matches> That reminds me of a children's book I wrote about multithreading
17:10 <@matches> I should probably scan it one day
17:10 < sulix> Did it begin "Once upa timeon...
17:10 <@matches> I think it did actually
17:10 <@matches> Once upon a time there was a process who had a lot of work to do...
17:11 <@matches> "I should probably scan it one day" - Why not TODAY!
17:11  * matches goes searching
17:16 <@matches> It is no where to be found
17:16 <@matches> I distinctly remember going to throw it out and deciding not to, but not where it actually went
17:27 <@matches> So maybe compiling a bunch of HFPA's examples using our Real type is a good way to make benchmarks
17:27 <@matches> I don't know
17:27 <@matches> My part of the project seems to move further and further away from the document formats thing
17:27 <@matches> Maybe I'll try and compile the GPU Paranoia
17:28 <@matches> Hah
17:34 <@matches> It seems like whatever Mathematica does is what we should do
17:35 <@matches> I wonder if wolfram is open about how Mathematica actually works
17:35 <@matches> I don't think they are
17:35 <@matches> The CQM lecturer for physics found a bug in Mathematica's number representation once that she showed us
17:35 <@matches> Apparently she reported it years ago and it's still there
17:36 <@matches> This segued nicely into why we should learn fortran
--- Day changed Wed Apr 23 2014
14:00 <@matches> IEEE's float encoding is inconvenient
14:01 <@matches> The mantissa is like, reversed
14:01 <@matches> b_{23-i} * 2^{-i}
14:19 <@matches> And the implicit extra 1 except when it isn't is a pain in the ass as well
14:19 <@matches> It's like
14:19 <@matches> I can't just copy the right bits I have to think
14:19 <@matches> What is this
14:19 <@matches> Mental effort
14:19 <@matches> Blargh
14:20 <@matches> I should have just stuck with the 8 bit floats with their 2 sign bits
14:20 <@matches> The hydra float
15:17 <@matches> Wow you get really different representations with an IEEE encoding of the bits
15:17 <@matches> ...
15:17 <@matches> I think I liked just treating the two parts as integers in the order they were stored better
15:18 <@matches> I have to call pow(3) and a floating point division for every '1' in the mantissa to get it to agree with IEEE
15:19 <@matches> Unless I'm missing some obvious trick
15:20 <@matches> But in IEEE the mantissa is not an integer
15:37 <@matches> Ooookkk
15:38 <@matches> You're precision doesn't disappear as fast when you do it that way
15:38 <@matches> Your
15:38 <@matches> Whatever
--- Day changed Thu Apr 24 2014
14:40 -!- You're now known as notmatches
14:40 -!- You're now known as matches
14:41 <@matches> Ok, less spammy channel time
14:41 -!- mode/#ipdf [+b m:matches!*@*] by matches
14:41 <@matches> Spam
14:41 <@matches> Dammit
14:42 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
14:42 < matches> Spam
14:43 < matches> Yay
14:43 < matches> ... this will all appear in the next git commit won't it -_-
14:52 -!- You're now known as notmatches
14:52 -!- You're now known as matches
--- Day changed Sat Apr 26 2014
00:45 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
00:46 <@matches> Incoming "at least it is self consistent in its wrongness" floating point conversion
00:48 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
00:48 < matches> Still can't talk
00:48 < matches> Excellent
--- Day changed Sun Apr 27 2014
17:10 < sulix> I finally got ipdf working on my laptop again by porting everything to OpenGL 3.1.
17:10 < sulix> I'm so sorry about how ugly the code now is, by the way.
18:04 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
18:04 -!- Pommers [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
18:05 < Pommers> You know what a really good feature for a PDF reader would be? The ability to have it completely borderless without menus, so you just see the page!
18:05 -!- Pommers [[email protected]] has left #ipdf []
18:06 <@matches> Wat
18:06 <@matches> Well we've got that
18:06 <@matches> We just can't read pdfs
18:07 <@matches> Did you get much done not going to the cleanup?
18:07 <@matches> I managed to transfer some dust from one location to another location, and then the wind blew it back in my face
18:08 <@matches> Then I looked at Frames' proposal and despaired at how much it is actually complete and has words in it
18:08 <@matches> I think he's onto something with his plan of actually writing things
18:14 -!- matches changed the topic of #ipdf to: ipdf the pdf doesn't stand for pdf
18:14 -!- matches changed the topic of #ipdf to: ipdf the pdf doesn't stand for pdf but the df stands for df
18:14 -!- matches changed the topic of #ipdf to: Sort of
18:15 <@matches> I need a script to auto mute me...
18:15 < sulix> I spent basically all of today on that one commit.
18:15 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
18:15 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
18:15 < sulix> Whether or not that was more useful than the cleanup remains to be seen.
18:16 <@matches> I should look at it I guess :P
18:16 < sulix> It compiles*
18:16 < sulix> *but has lots of warnings.
18:16 <@matches> It can't be worse than my tester that converts floats to floats
18:17 < sulix> I'm pretty certain it can be and is worse.
18:17 <@matches> However I've realised I kind of actually do need to be able to do that
18:17 <@matches> Woah 3k+ lines
18:17 <@matches> * 4k+ lines
18:18 < sulix> Most of it was autogenerated, but still...
18:18  * matches weeps for OpenGL 1
18:18 < sulix> You don't realise how much you miss it until it's gone...
18:19 <@matches> So what does all this stuff actually do
18:19 <@matches> Because I could see rectangles and things just fine without it
18:19 < sulix> Exactly the same thing as before but it works on my laptop now.
18:19 <@matches> I see a shader program, that's obviously good
18:20 <@matches> Actually I see code for a shader but no shader yet
18:20 < sulix> The shaders are all #defines, I'm afraid.
18:22 <@matches> What was wrong with your laptop?
18:23 < sulix> It doesn't support the OpenGL compatibility mode, so --- as I was using the OpenGL 3.1 feature of "primitive restart", I had to code the entire thing in OpenGL 3.1
18:23 < sulix> On the bright side, this paves the way for doing things like getting the GPU to use doubles.
18:26 <@matches> Ooh
18:27 < sulix> (also halves)
18:27 < sulix> (halfs?)
18:27 <@matches> Do GPUs use IEEE floats? I had a reference that seemed to be complaining they didn't
18:27 <@matches> Although it was circa 2007
18:28 < sulix> I don't think that there's a requirement that they internally use them, but they do read and write them.
18:28 < sulix> A bit like how x86 processors use(d) 80 bit reals internally and rounded when reading/writing to memory.
18:28 <@matches> Do halves have a different mantissa encoding
18:29 <@matches> The examples given on wikipedia seem wrong
18:30 < sulix> I think this is the canonical description: http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/NV/half_float.txt
18:33 <@matches> That would be before IEEE specified half (binary16) but its the same summation for the mantissa anyway
18:33 <@matches> binary16 is (briefly) in the 2008 revised 754
18:34 <@matches> So I think wikipedia is giving a wrong example, but I'm not confident enough to go and change wikipedia
18:35 <@matches> Also I just realised my conversion of the mantissa to a Real is horrible
18:35 <@matches> Oh well, it can get fixed later
18:36 <@matches> Hopefully I can finish my fluid mechanics assignment quick enough to actually work on my progress report / proposal / thing
18:36 <@matches> (Hah)
18:36 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
18:37 < sulix> Yeah, I'm going to see how much Lit review I can write for tomorrow. :/
--- Day changed Mon Apr 28 2014
22:06 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
22:10 <@matches> Must find motivation to work on Lit Review at 10pm...
--- Day changed Tue Apr 29 2014
10:06 <@matches> Must find motivation to work on Lit Review at 10am...
--- Day changed Wed Apr 30 2014
13:04 <@matches> I wanted to rasterise a vector image so I could compare them at the same scale ("These look the same!") and zoomed ("This one looks crappier!)
13:04 <@matches> But because vector graphics editor/viewers don't use pixels as units but they do when they export to a bitmap, it's difficult to actually get them to look the same
13:04 <@matches> Before scaling
13:05 <@matches> I guess a screenshot tool might be the best way
13:06 <@matches> I don't know if I need to do this really
13:07 <@matches> I guess Mechanical and Chemical engineers marking this will probably benefit from having an example
13:07 <@matches> Doesn't everyone know the difference between vector and raster graphics
13:07 <@matches> Where was that paper that had tux vector and rasterised
13:10 <@matches> Ah, worth2003xr.pdf
13:11 <@matches> If it's in a paper I guess it can go in a Lit Review
13:11 <@matches> At least until I have something better
13:15 <@matches> Kind of ironic that the image I am using was actually scanned first as a bitmap and then converted to vector using Trace Bitmap
13:57 <@matches> Ah, it's actually impossible to get it to be exactly the same, because even taking a screenshot on my own screen it will then be different depending on the display of whoever reads the digital pdf
13:57 <@matches> Oh well
13:58 <@matches> I suppose "It looks shittier" will have to suffice without trying to make them look exactly the same before scaling
13:59 <@matches> I have spent WAY too long making this example
13:59 <@matches> I could have just gone "See \cite{worth2003xr.pdf}"
16:00 <@matches> So it might be worth talking about dpi in pdf viewers and how it SUCKS
20:17 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
21:14 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
21:46 <@matches> I have perpetrated XML on the codebase
21:47 <@matches> I have grand visions of our code supporting SVGs
21:47 <@matches> I also have grand visions of actually doing a Literature Review
21:50  * sulix git pull's with some trepidation.
21:52 < sulix> Never heard of pugixml before but it looks okay.
21:55 <@matches> The W3C XML specification is pretty terrifying
21:56 <@matches> I will feel more like I've satisfied the "Document Formats" part of the Literature Review if I say some things about it
21:57 <@matches> Well SVG in particular
21:57 <@matches> SVG defines a "minimum" precision of IEEE binary32 
21:58 <@matches> But there's a specification for "High Quality" viewers that have to use binary64
21:58 <@matches> That's probably the only real thing relevant directly to our problem
--- Day changed Thu May 01 2014
01:23 <@matches> It's May 1st
01:23 <@matches> This means we can no longer say "The Literature Review is due Next Month"
01:23 <@matches> IT'S DUE THIS MONTH
01:23  * matches freaks out
01:23 <@matches> ... but after sleep
01:25 <@matches> Page 12 of my Literature Review by the way
01:25 <@matches> Is the only page I like
16:34 <@matches> The C version of paranoia compiled for me
16:34 <@matches> Not terribly exciting (I have an IEEE 754 compatible processor! Amazing)
22:17 <@matches> W Kahan's website is a very interesting if slightly difficult read
22:24 <@matches> He appears to have written this 80 page pdf in a day
22:27 <@matches> It kind of reads like one of those religious propaganda pamphlets
22:27 <@matches> "Java is the Work of Satan"
22:27 <@matches> "Kernighan-Ritcie C floating-point semantics are the light"
22:28 <@matches> But every so often he has a graph or example that makes him seem less crazy
22:34 <@matches> "And now Java forbits you to mention or use extra-precise long double arithmetic, though IEEE Standard 754 recommends its use and over 95% of computers on desktops have it built into their hardware. You paid for it, but Java denies you its benefits."
22:34 <@matches> Java has long double now right?
22:34 <@matches> Although that JOP I was looking at was just 32 bit
22:36 <@matches> Ah, java.lang.math.BigDecimal
22:37 <@matches> "But be careful with division, because it will throw exceptions if it's like 1/3, then it will be Non-terminating decimal expansion."
22:37 <@matches> That sounds horrifying
22:40 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
--- Day changed Sat May 03 2014
22:01 < sulix> My crazy idea to you would be to research p-adic number representations.
22:01 < sulix> It's been a while, but they were mentioned a couple of times in pure maths units and seemed interesting/crazy and I can't remember much about them.
22:28 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
22:29 <@matches> I will look at them, the "just use a float but with more bits until you run out of memory" doesn't seem a very well thought out approach
22:29 <@matches> Maybe someone actually cares enough to research better ways
22:29 <@matches> I mean, something's wrong with an idea when you can write "1/3" and have a runtime exception (re: Java BigNumber)
22:30 <@matches> I plan to write some nasty things about Java based on Kahan's rants so as to gloss over the fact that it has BigNumber built into it and forstall the inevitable "Why didn't you use Java!"
22:31 < sulix> I think we want to truncate to whatever the most accurate you can see at the given zoom level.
22:31 <@matches> Yeah
22:32 <@matches> It annoys me that XML and HTML specs don't have a PDF version
22:32 < sulix> I've been printing to pdf for some of those things.
22:33 <@matches> None of the links to different sections would work though
22:35 <@matches> Specifications are thrilling
22:35 <@matches> "How to read this specification"
22:35 <@matches> "This specification should be read like all other specifications"
22:35 <@matches> Oh wait
22:35 <@matches> It actually gets better
22:35 <@matches> Is that...
22:35 <@matches> Humour!
22:36 <@matches> I thought that wasn't allowed!
22:36 <@matches> "First it should be read cover-to-cover, multiple times. Then, it should be read backwards at least once. Then it should be read by picking random sections from the contents list and following all the cross references"
22:37 <@matches> As much as I love the idea of reading 626 pages of specification backwards...
--- Day changed Tue May 06 2014
00:39 <@matches> http://szmoore.net/ipdf/sam/rate-my-litreview.py
00:39 <@matches> Tim will be thrilled!
00:40 <@matches> I'm probably going to really regret making that
00:41 <@matches> The regret is rising to the surface
00:41 <@matches> It's an example of an interactive document format
00:41 <@matches> The pixels or perish guy would approve
00:43 <@matches> So much regret
00:43 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
23:37 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
23:38 <@matches> So, I have this book called "Computer Graphics" that is pretty amazing
23:38 <@matches> Funnily enough it has all the algorithms in it
23:38 <@matches> For computer graphics
23:38 <@matches> Probably should have been reading it ages ago but I thought we were worrying more about precision
23:38 <@matches> I don't even know anymore
23:39 <@matches> Have to read 500pg textbook on graphics, 500pg textbook on floating point numbers, 500pg PDF/PostScript standards...
23:39 <@matches> Too many pages
23:39 <@matches> Anyway it has a section on Octrees
23:39 <@matches> But don't worry
23:39 <@matches> It mentions Quad trees
23:39 <@matches> It also actually mentions fractals
23:39 <@matches> As a thing
23:40 <@matches> In other news, extending the document we have at the moment to allow anything other than rectangles will be interesting
23:41 <@matches> Did you do this on purpose? :P
--- Day changed Wed May 07 2014
12:32 <@matches> We need to do something about all the warnings generated by the magic OpenGL 3 stuff
12:32 <@matches> It's making it hard to sport warnings that I actually care about
12:33 <@matches> Like: You forgot to return a value in this function :S
13:52 <@matches> Gah I did it again
13:52 <@matches> auto is dangerous
13:53 <@matches> Possibly because it's buggy
13:53 <@matches> I can't actually see any compiler warnings at all
17:39 <@matches> So you can almost maybe see a difference between beziers calculated using floats and doubles
17:40 <@matches> If you squint
17:40 <@matches> And view them on different monitors
17:41 <@matches> Ah there we go
17:41 <@matches> I successfully broke it
17:42 <@matches> When you round to pixel positions it doesn't make a difference
17:43 <@matches> But on the other hand if you calculate beziers using really big numbers they look wierd :P
17:43 <@matches> That's important
17:43 <@matches> Because if you have an arbitrary infinite document you might be at coordinate positions that are really big
17:43 <@matches> Captain Obvious strikes again
17:45 <@matches> I think I will make a video of a circle moving towards infinity
17:45 <@matches> This probably won't help the literature view much but it's too tempting to resist
17:46 <@matches> I gave up trying to deal with our document format so I currently just generate vector<pair<T, T> > and then map that to a bitmap :P
--- Day changed Thu May 08 2014
10:57 <@matches> So circle was a terrible example
10:57 <@matches> It stays as a circle
10:58 <@matches> Hopefully the first curve I tried wasn't just a bug
12:31 <@matches> I think it was a bug
13:35 <@matches> There are bezier things in ipdf/code/src/tests now
13:57 < sulix> I am very confused. 
13:57 < sulix> It generates bitmaps of circles in varying shades of red?
13:58  * sulix decides to actually read the code.
14:03 < sulix> Ah: I see what it's doing now.
14:16 <@matches> Your first comment was pretty accurate :S
14:17 <@matches> I was trying to obtain some amazing animation of a circle that hopelessly collapsed or exploded or something
14:19 < sulix> I'm slightly terrified that it's generating a vector of points.
14:19 < sulix> On the other hand, it looks like the rest of the world is realising what a mistake making OpenGL 3 terrifying was.
14:19 <@matches> Yeah that's a bit lazy
14:19 <@matches> Although, is returning a vector optimisable?
14:20 < sulix> In C++11 it is.
14:20 < sulix> (But not C++98)
14:20 <@matches> C++11 is growing on me
14:20 < sulix> Yeah: I've found the same thing.
14:21 < sulix> I'm a bit scared about what that means, though.
14:21 < sulix> Maybe one day I'll think boost was a good thing, and then I'll truly be lost.
14:21 <@matches> Hahaha
14:21 <@matches> The lambdas remind me of Javascript :S
14:22 < sulix> I think lambdas are one of those things that are good for you in moderation, but poisonous in large quantities.
14:22 <@matches> Probably
14:23 < sulix> I won't be around on Monday, btw, so I'll miss the meeting.
14:23 < sulix> (Also I'm missing out on Codejam, sadly)
14:23 <@matches> No!
14:23 <@matches> (To both of those things)
14:24 <@matches> Oh god that means I need to make double the progress
14:25 < sulix> I spoke to Tim, he said that it might be worth cancelling the meeting altogether.
14:26 <@matches> Haha
14:26 <@matches> I'm not sure if I should take that as a good or bad sign
14:27 <@matches> I'm not going great with the literature review
14:28 < sulix> I rated a bit of it.
14:28 < sulix> (Though there wasn't a submit button, and it took me a few goes to get through the Turing test)
14:28 <@matches> Page 20?
14:28 <@matches> Haha
14:28 <@matches> The turing test defaults to the accepted answer though!
14:28 <@matches> You have to actually change it to get it wrong
14:29 < sulix> Yeah, I thought it was a trick question.
14:29 <@matches> Maybe I'll give Tim a slightly less joke-worthy version of Rate My LitReview when the draft is done
14:29 <@matches> ... when hell has frozen over...
14:29 <@matches> Whichever comes first
14:31 < sulix> You should read James Mickens' USENIX articles: mkdir -p vogl/vogl_build/bin/release64 && cd $_                                                                                                                                                                                  
14:31 < sulix> cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release -DBUILD_X64=On ../../..                                                                                                                                                                         
14:31 < sulix> make -j 10
14:31 < sulix> (Also I should paste the right thing in)
14:31 < sulix> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/
14:32 <@matches> Ah yes, I will read those at some point
14:32  * matches downloads the first one, telling himself he will not read it until working on the lit review
14:33  * matches reads it anyway
14:33  * sulix feels guilty about not doing lit review at the moment, too.
14:40 <@matches> Have you heard of /read Computer Graphics by Hearn and Baker?
14:40 <@matches> I have the ancient "In the dawn before OpenGL 1.0" version
14:41 <@matches> There is a section mentioning "GL"
14:41 <@matches> I don't think they use GPU anywhere, they call them "Display Rasterisers" or something
14:42 <@matches> Display Processor
14:43 <@matches> A Display Processing Unit is a Display Processor for a Random Scan (vector) display system
14:43 <@matches> Input devices are interesting too
14:44 <@matches> "Input Dials"
14:44 <@matches> A box of variable resistors basically
14:45 <@matches> Working with computers in the 70s/80s would have been interesting although probably just as horrible as it is today
14:45 <@matches> But at least it would have been less "webby"
14:46 <@matches> Where "How do I centre a div" is a deep philosophical question
14:48 <@matches> I should probably obtain / read a newer edition of this if I want to put it in my lit review?
14:48 <@matches> Although it is referrring to the same papers we had about Bressenheim
15:14 <@matches> Oh my god they mention precision!
--- Log closed Thu May 08 17:04:49 2014
--- Log opened Thu May 08 18:56:39 2014
18:56 -!- matches [[email protected]] has joined #ipdf
18:56 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 2 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
18:56 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 3 secs
19:55 < matches> Bresenham made a tutorial on rasterisation
19:56 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
19:56 <@matches> Bresenham has a nice tutorial about rasterising
19:56 <@matches> Ties in with the "Since mankind came down from the trees" angle
19:57 <@matches> "Needlepoint or counted cross-stitch, such as that popularised by the image on a box of Whitman Sampler chocolates..."
19:57 <@matches> I'm not sure how to relate the rasterisation stuff to the precision stuff
19:58 <@matches> You have to make a pretty big rounding error to end up in the wrong pixel
19:59 <@matches> Hearn and Baker mention rounding errors as being one reason why you don't want to use floats and then round them when rasterising things
19:59 <@matches> The (bigger) reason being that floating point operations are expensive
20:00 <@matches> They say pixels could move from the line in the DDA algorithm for long lines... I wonder how long they mean... 1e38 pixels? :P
20:02 <@matches> I want to actually make a drawing of things that look different due to rounding errors dammit!
20:03 <@matches> None of this "here is a sentence or two of handwaving"
20:04 <@matches> Maybe rounding errors were a problem on computers with 8 bit floats and terrible resolution displays :P
20:04 <@matches> Except the worse your resolution the less you'd notice rounding errors
20:04 <@matches> Well the more you'd notice them, the less they'd happen?
20:04 <@matches> I don't know
20:05 -!- mode/#ipdf [-o matches] by matches
20:30 < sulix> These were recommended: http://www.amazon.com/Forman-S.-Acton/e/B001IYTXGY/?_encoding=UTF8&tag=mollrock-20&linkCode=ur2&qid=1358713701&camp=1789&sr=8-3&creative=390957
20:30 < sulix> (By a blog post, which turned out not to be about floating point precision, but does mention it: http://mollyrocket.com/casey/stream_0009.html )
21:21 < matches> I'll look at them at some point
21:22 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
21:22 <@matches> I'll look at them at some point
21:22 <@matches> I sort of got bogged down explaining how lines are drawn :S
21:22 <@matches> Graphics is complicated dammit
21:22 <@matches> I'll probably get more done if I just write about everything no matter how irrelevant
21:23 <@matches> Sooner or later I'll actually write something important and the rest can be appendicised
21:23 <@matches> Hopefully
21:25 <@matches> Oh dear, I have located some primitive form of blog
21:26 <@matches> Well, it talks about things, so I'll reference it...
21:26 <@matches> "The good-looking textured light-sourced bouncy fun smart and stretchy page"
21:26 <@matches> It's generally best to not go up a directory from the page you are looking at