00:49 <@matches> Making all my figures in SVG
00:49 <@matches> Lovingly hand written
00:49 <@matches> I'm not sure that was a good idea
+01:43 <@matches> Heh, converting SVG to PS in Inkscape appears to introduce rounding errors of up to 0.1 of whatever unit PS is using
+01:44 <@matches> 1.25*56
+01:45 <@matches> Disregard I appear to have mistaken this terminal for a calculator
+01:45 <@matches> They do look similar at this hour in the morning
+01:49 < sulix> I'm seriously doubting whether starting to write stuff about how all of the rasterizing algorithms work was a good idea.
+01:49 <@matches> Haha
+01:49 <@matches> I don't really have much rasterising as such
+01:49 <@matches> Straight lines
+01:50 <@matches> Beziers aren't really "rasterising" so much as defining curves
+01:50 <@matches> Then I mention fonts and how they are all bezier-ish
+01:50 < sulix> I've just spent about an hour trying to prove that bresenham's algorithm can be made to not depend on any coordinates outside the screen.
+01:50 <@matches> Then I have a bit on shading that I can't do
+01:50 <@matches> :S
+01:50 <@matches> That's probably not important
+01:50 <@matches> To quote Tim in my thesis regards to actually explaining algorithms
+01:50 < sulix> It turns out that if you clip the endpoints (even correctly), you adjust the slope of the lines slightly.
+01:51 <@matches> "No you don't have space. [...] details should be left to where they are useful"
+01:51 <@matches> Having said that absolutely none of this is "useful"
+01:51 < sulix> To fix it you have to initialize bresenham's "accumulated error" properly.
+01:51 <@matches> That sounds sort of relevant
+01:52 <@matches> Well I just copied some SVG into PostScript and discovered that the coordinates are all reflected :S
+01:52 < sulix> My choices for referencing this is either a textbook I don't have that "apparently mentions this" or a blog post which rants about it a bit.
+01:52 <@matches> Bahaha
+01:53 <@matches> That sounds like work for the final lit review rather than this one
+01:53 < sulix> Still need to work out how to actually work in how my references solved problems rather than contributed to standards or whatever.
+02:05 <@matches> minipage for latex is great by the way
+02:06 <@matches> Like <div> but not awful
+02:40 <@matches> Oh year
+02:40 <@matches> The best spline curve example ever
+02:41 <@matches> Fuck it took about 3 hours to do that
+02:41 <@matches> Dear god
+02:41 <@matches> Ergh remind me to go censor the log before Friday 1am
+02:50 <@matches> I pushed my references changes by the way
+02:51 < sulix> Yay merging!
+02:51 <@matches> Oh I forgot the actual pdfs but whatever
+02:51 <@matches> I am jealous of your actual concise and to the point lit review
+02:51 <@matches> Mine suddenly exploded into figures
+02:51 <@matches> I should stop
+02:51 <@matches> I think I will delete the Shading section
+02:52 <@matches> No wait it would be a gap to take it out now
+02:52 <@matches> Argh
+02:53 <@matches> I will just have to resist the urge to put a diagram in showing how shading works
+02:53 <@matches> All these diagrams will probably kill me
+02:53 < sulix> I'm thinking of scrapping chunks of the Rendering section of mine just so I don't have to finish them and can go to sleep.
+02:54 <@matches> Tim did seem strongly in favour of covering the rendering stuff
+02:54 <@matches> At least referencing the papers and giving the definitions of things if not actually how to render them
+02:55 <@matches> Anyway I think Beziers at least are important
+02:55 <@matches> I'm discovering a few interesting things about SVG
+02:56 <@matches> The path definitions are basically exactly the same as postscript's commands except less stack-y
+02:56 <@matches> But it has relative commands as well
+02:56 <@matches> Which is interesting because if you have a really really long curve defined with relative commands
+02:56 <@matches> Maybe, just maybe, it will actually cause a precision issue
+02:57 <@matches> I doubt it though
+03:00 <@matches> Well good luck, I am going to sleep
+03:01 < sulix> Thanks. I will see what I can say about Béziers.
+03:38 * sulix collapses.
+08:07 <@matches> Nice work
+08:07 <@matches> Mine is too detailed I think
+08:07 <@matches> It's horrible because now I'm committed to following through on that level of detail everywhere
+08:09 <@matches> Removing detail feels like murder
+08:12 <@matches> Would you be offended if I cited your lit review as a "more concise" overview for the bored reader? :P
+14:28 < sulix> So apparently the entire internet is talking about Bézier curves today.
+14:28 < sulix> This would have been really useful, say, yesterday.
+14:30 < sulix> Also this page looks amazing... http://pomax.github.io/bezierinfo/
+14:39 <@matches> Haha
+14:39 <@matches> I think I've got the Beziers covered
+14:39 <@matches> If you could just hop over to ratemylitreview and check me on that...
+14:39 <@matches> :P
+14:42 < sulix> Ratemylitreview has broken some of the equations...
+14:46 <@matches> If I had time I would include a "rate ratemylitreview" field
+14:46 <@matches> I sent an email
+14:46 <@matches> Now to fear the wrath
+14:47 <@matches> Half time
+14:48 <@matches> Haha I'm somewhat regretting choosing such condescending ratings
+14:49 < sulix> I got terrified seeing that email before I realised it was from you.
+14:49 <@matches> Bahaha
+14:49 <@matches> Well I have to give him something
+14:50 < sulix> You should clearly make the ratings be all amazing, like: "Good, Great, Amazing, Truly Spiffing, Superlative and \"Everything in creation has been leading up to this page of my Lit review\""
+14:51 <@matches> You can POST your own ratings but expecting that might be a bit much
+14:51 <@matches> They are emailed to me as text and they are also stored in the database as text
+14:51 <@matches> Not the most objective of systems :S
+14:51 <@matches> I thought the ratings covered all the bases though
+14:52 < sulix> You could always do what the Shakespeare proramming lanugage does. Positive adjectives +1, negative adjectives -1.
+20:18 <@matches> I haven't said half of what I thought I should about floats
+20:18 <@matches> Tim has been scarily silent :P
+20:19 <@matches> I guess I will assume that means everything is FINE
+20:19 <@matches> I finally got my Table of Contents and things to not take up 6 pages
+20:20 <@matches> I have to resist the urge to add some snarky comments to my section on LaTeX
+20:22 <@matches> About how in theory you don't have to worry about where things go but in practice you spend hours doing horrible things like arbitrarily adding vertical space to force something into position because the anchor position doesn't take into account your line spacing and thus isn't where you expect and the next element overlaps things as a result
+20:22 <@matches> Blargh
+20:22 < sulix> Just stumbled upon a mention of numerical precision causing issues with Wu's algorithm in a book.
+20:22 <@matches> Cite it
+20:23 <@matches> Also give it to me to cite if I can stay awake long enough to read it
+20:23 <@matches> You have contributed some good last minute references
+20:23 <@matches> I seem to have contributed Javascript
+20:23 <@matches> I should be ashamed
+20:24 < sulix> It's in Abrash's Black Book, end of Chapter 42 ("Wu'ed in Haste; Fried, Stewed at leasure"(
+20:24 <@matches> Haha
+20:24 <@matches> My venerable graphics book doesn't even have Wu in it :S
+20:25 <@matches> It also doesn't really properly reference people's papers, or I guess you don't need to in a textbook?
+20:26 <@matches> It gives De Casteljau's method without crediting him for example. It does credit Bezier with things though.
+20:26 <@matches> But they clearly didn't have to worry about putting \cite{} after every single statement
+20:27 <@matches> I'm not sure how well my "I couldn't find a reference, have a look at my website" footnotes are going to go down
+20:27 < sulix> Casey from the Jeff & Casey show did a video blog on Bézier curves and interpolation this morning.
+20:28 <@matches> I really should start reading blogs more, but I was in no position to be watching blogs this morning
+20:28 < sulix> He claims that Bézier did not invent the Bézier curve, so why the hell are they named after him.
+20:28 <@matches> Had I known
+20:28 <@matches> Oh he didn't
+20:28 <@matches> I know that
+20:28 <@matches> That's in Metafont
+20:28 < sulix> I should read Metafont.
+20:28 <@matches> They were named after him because he was the first guy that said "These look useful for things"
+20:28 <@matches> However
+20:28 <@matches> I can't find the paper in a peer reviewed journal
+20:29 <@matches> I think it was for Industry (TM)
+20:29 <@matches> And also in French
+20:29 <@matches> I just cited a paper he did write in English about his experiences with Computer Aided Design
+20:29 <@matches> He doesn't define anything, just shows pictures of nice bezier curvey car bodies
+20:30 < sulix> I saw a bunch of french papers by him, but couldn't be bothered trying to work out which ones were useful.
+20:30 <@matches> De Casteljau's paper is also hard to find
+20:30 <@matches> The order of events was
+20:30 <@matches> 1912 - Bernshtein comes up with the basis polynomials for some sort of mathematical fitting
+20:31 <@matches> 1959 - De Casteljau decides to approximate the curves using his algorithm
+20:31 <@matches> (De Casteljau is only an approximation by the way, but it would converge to the true bezier curve)
+20:31 <@matches> 196? - Bezier does stuff
+20:31 <@matches> 1983/4 - Knuth decides to use them for fonts
+20:32 <@matches> Somehow they ended up in PostScript around that time as well
+20:32 <@matches> Now we're stuck with them
+20:34 <@matches> Hmm I hope my Tensor Equation is right there
+20:34 < sulix> Here's that Wu thing, btw: http://www.jagregory.com/abrash-black-book/#notes-on-wu-antialiasing
+20:36 <@matches> I'm struggling to make my floating point section sound sane
+20:36 <@matches> Too many little details
+20:37 <@matches> Like that you can choose different bases
+20:37 <@matches> What even is a number anyway
+20:38 <@matches> I think the proper way to approach it is talking about a number represented by digits and some numbers take infinitely many digits etc
+20:39 <@matches> Then computers can only fit X binary digits in their registers
+20:39 <@matches> A floating point is basically where you have a fixed point mantissa and then shift the location of the fixed point
+20:39 <@matches> Let's try and ignore the implicit leading one...
+20:40 <@matches> It sort of all falls apart when trying to fit IEEE in there
+20:40 <@matches> This thing is too big as well :(
+20:41 <@matches> Page limits are stupid
+20:42 <@matches> I can't remember what it even is but it's definitely less than what I have
+21:06 <@matches> Ah I see, the aliasing of Wu's line isn't perfect
+21:06 <@matches> I think Wu admits that
+21:06 <@matches> Hmm, that is interesting
+21:11 <@matches> Argh that blog is all like "We should use web based documents instead of PDF"
+21:11 <@matches> Pixels or Perish detected
+21:11 <@matches> To be fair it does actually look nice
+21:14 <@matches> The table of contents in the black book are quite amusing
+21:14 <@matches> No! I finished writing about graphics stuff I need to do floating stuff
+21:15 < sulix> It's a brilliant book, but possibly for another day.
+21:16 <@matches> Dammit I guess I do need to produce more figures
+21:16 <@matches> Sigh
+21:17 <@matches> A picture is worth a thousand words and all that
+21:17 <@matches> And therefore takes at least as long as writing a thousand words to make
+21:27 <@matches> The more I look at SVG files the more convinced I am that they are actually the write way to do things
+21:27 <@matches> right
+21:28 <@matches> Despite all that philosophical guff, you can do the same things as postscript in similar ways, but you also have a DOM that isn't terrifying like whatever PDF supposely does
+21:28 <@matches> I guess PDF would be more efficient though
+21:29 < sulix> That's pretty much the conclusion I've come to.
+21:31 <@matches> Unfortunately now I know more about SVG I keep hand editing my figures
+21:32 <@matches> I don't need to use gnuplot's terrible data point markers anymore!
+21:32 <@matches> I am free!
+21:40 <@matches> I particularly like
+21:40 <@matches> That I can make the points have alpha now
+21:40 <@matches> So if you plot overlapping points it is no longer impossible to see them
+21:40 <@matches> Of course we are restricted by the zoom in the pdf viewer...
+21:41 <@matches> This project is too meta
+21:41 <@matches> It is doing my head in
+--- Day changed Fri May 23 2014
+11:22 < sulix> Welp. Submitting this version: http://davidgow.net/stuff/LitReviewDavid.pdf
+11:23 < sulix> (The introduction has only got more over the top, I'm afraid)
+11:48 < sulix> Do you know what is happening/isn't happening RE: Revised project proposals?
+12:03 < sulix> Well: Literature review is submitted.
+12:03 < sulix> (In person to the coordinator, which is a little bit scary)
+--- Day changed Sun May 25 2014
+15:42 <@matches> No meeting tomorrow by the way
+15:43 < sulix> Ah. Cool. I have like 300 things to do.
+15:43 < sulix> Just pushed fixes for all of the compile warnings, btw.
+15:43 <@matches> Cool
+15:44 <@matches> I want to keep editing my Lit Review :S
+15:44 < sulix> I had thought that Float() always returns a "float", but it sometimes returns a double.
+15:44 <@matches> Oh
+15:44 <@matches> Whoops
+15:44 <@matches> Well a double is technically still a float...
+15:44 < sulix> (Also, it turns out OpenGL actualy breaks the C++ spec, and is therefore impossible to use without hacks if you have -Werror enabled)
+15:45 <@matches> Sigh
+15:45 < sulix> It was warning that I was losing precision from float x = Float(blah);
+15:45 <@matches> One of the things I want to put in my lit review is a snarky paragraph about how no one actually obeys standards anyway
+15:46 < sulix> There are points where you get function pointers as void* pointers, but C++ needs to work on systems where code and data are stored in different bits of memory with different size pointers.
+15:46 <@matches> On the other hand no matter how much better I make the lit review no one will read it because I'm being assessed on a conference paper not a dissertation
+15:46 <@matches> Ah
+15:46 < sulix> So casting any data pointer to a function pointer is apparently illegal.
+15:47 <@matches> That's annoying
+15:47 < sulix> Fortunately, gcc doesn't complain if you start the line that does it with "__extension__", so that's what we do.
+15:47 <@matches> Haha
+15:54 <@matches> Ok I am still about 3 days behind on sleep but I guess I should do work
+15:54 <@matches> Bye
+--- Day changed Tue May 27 2014
+12:49 <@matches> We missed the Computable Document Format (CDF) by Mathematica by the way
+12:49 <@matches> Wolfram would be offended
+12:50 * matches hopes none of the Mathematica fanatics read the lit review
+12:50 <@matches> Or this channel
+12:54 <@matches> I did have both Mathematica and IPython as a dot point and they got the mighty question mark of confusion over them
+12:54 <@matches> Maybe I'll add them in later
+12:55 <@matches> Frames does not seem to agree with my assertion that practically anything can be considered a document format :P
+12:55 <@matches> Plain text!
+12:57 <@matches> So I was looking through last year's Mech/Chem final year conference
+12:57 <@matches> Naturally there is nothing remotely like this project in there
+12:57 <@matches> :(
+--- Log opened Tue Jun 10 13:59:54 2014
+13:59 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
+13:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 3 secs
+16:29 -!- mode/#ipdf [+o matches] by OperServ
+--- Day changed Wed Jun 11 2014
+13:13 <@matches> JVB just asked me if it was possible to have a self updating pdf
+13:13 <@matches> I suppose he didn't ask whether it would be easy
+13:15 <@matches> As in, one that would download itself if there was a newer version
+13:16 <@matches> Technically with the crippled PostScript it would be "No" but with all that stuff in the standard about DRM and "Action Objects" and Javascript and stuff...
+13:18 <@matches> Hmm, a webserver running git and a cronjob and requiring authentication may solve his problem
+13:18 <@matches> With pdf.js or just relying on browsers to have pdf plugins
+13:18 <@matches> Wait why am I solving JVB's problem
+--- Day changed Fri Jun 13 2014
+16:31 <@matches> So exams have finished
+16:31 <@matches> Well my exams have finished
+16:32 <@matches> Now I can go back to panicking about the project again
+16:37 <@sulix> Excellent: it's your turn to do something impressive for the meeting on Monday, then. :P
+--- Day changed Mon Jun 16 2014
+14:49 <@matches> Some of this OpenGL stuff doesn't quite add up
+14:49 <@matches> Like m_cahed_display.UnBind(); m_cached_display.Blit();
+14:50 <@matches> Oh
+14:50 <@matches> I see
+14:50 <@matches> There is a difference
+14:51 * matches -> OpenGL documentation
+14:53 <@matches> Right I see
+15:03 <@matches> Well, this makes a lot more sense than tpg's "Adventures in VEMS" in #ucc at least
+15:18 <@sulix> Well that's an achievement, I guess.
+15:18 <@sulix> Also http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2007/n2431.pdf
+15:18 <@sulix> It's the spec for "nullptr"...
+15:20 <@matches> "Pointers are pretty cool. Pointers that are NULL are pretty cool. We address these issues by proposing nullptr" ?
+15:21 <@sulix> Haha: Pretty much.
+15:22 <@matches> Why not just reserve the word "null"
+15:22 <@matches> I could get behind it then
+15:23 <@matches> It is not a null reference
+15:23 <@matches> But if you ever have a null reference something is horrifyingly wrong
+15:23 <@matches> Bah humbug
+15:24 <@sulix> They have a page about that where they said "everyone was naming their variables \"null\"".
+15:24 * sulix realises he just escaped those quote. Oh dear.
+15:24 <@matches> A valid point, which should have lead to "Everyone are morons"
+15:24 <@matches> Fun fact
+15:25 <@matches> Matlab (like fortran actually) will let you use key words as variable names.
+15:25 <@sulix> "It's a feature!"
+15:25 <@matches> Question on CITS2401 exam: "Why is 'ii' preferred over 'i' and 'jj' over 'j' for loop iteration?"
+15:26 <@matches> Both i and j are the complex number sqrt(-1)
+15:27 <@matches> It seems like naming it 'nullptr' instead of 'null' missed an opportunity to stop people naming their variables really confusing things :P
+15:30 <@matches> Well I am infinitely wiser about nullptr now but I don't think it will stop me just using NULL
+16:15 <@matches> This is slowly starting to make sense
+16:35 <@matches> I'm having a bit of difficulty because it's all so optimised for the GPU
+16:35 <@matches> I think what we need is an ObjectRenderer class or similar
+16:36 <@matches> Have one for each type of object and implement RenderUsingGPU and RenderUsingCPU
+16:36 <@matches> I will see what monstrosity I can come up with
+16:36 <@matches> But a lot of that code for the circles and rectangles is exactly the same just copied and pasted with different variable names
+16:37 <@matches> I think there is an official software engineering term for that sort of thing...
+16:46 <@matches> Alright, breaking everything
+16:46 <@matches> This will probably take a while
+16:47 * matches dreads merges
+17:02 <@sulix> Yeah, I was going to basically end up with an ObjectRenderer class, too.
+17:02 <@sulix> So I'll leave it to you for now and procrasinate from doing my maths in some other way.
+17:07 <@matches> Cool :)
+17:52 <@matches> Now I'm not very strict about the whole RAII thing myself, but there seem to be some cases where things can probably just go in the constructor?
+17:52 <@matches> I guess we can fight about those later
+17:54 <@matches> I guess I can see us wanting to set m_render_inited to false and have it automatically recreate everything, maybe, but I can't see a case where we will want to recompile the shaders, so I am going to put the shader initialisation in the constructors
+17:54 <@matches> I have gone mad with power
+17:54 <@matches> Maaad
+20:30 <@matches> This ObjectRenderer is like a two headed hydra
+20:31 <@matches> I thought about using just the ibo and vbo and getting the indices out of it, but that's a bit terrible
+20:31 <@matches> So it will have an ibo for the GPU and an array for the CPU
+20:35 * sulix thinks this makes sense.
+21:47 <@matches> Good news! I have things on the screen. Bad news. They are still on the GPU and they are wrong.
+21:49 <@matches> More coffee required...
+21:58 <@matches> Not sure if code wrong or fglrx having an existential crisis
+22:04 <@matches> Unrelated to the segfaults of doom, but I just realised that there's all this interest in using GPUs for scientific computation, and everything seems to point to them having vastly inferior floating point computation to a CPU, which is a bit disconcerting
+22:05 <@matches> I imagine the OpenCL libraries etc actually use the IEEE floating point capabilities? I hope?
+22:05 * matches files under "beyond the scope of project"
+22:06 <@sulix> If you commit code I can test it on non-fglrx if that'll help.
+22:06 <@matches> I'd rather not commit it just yet, I am 90% sure it is something I have done wrong and don't want to shame myself by committing broken code
+22:06 <@matches> It'd be like vomiting all over the codebase
+22:07 * sulix is pretty sure half of his commits broke something.
+22:29 <@matches> Ok I committed stuff that should in theory work with the test pattern again
+22:30 <@matches> Using new and improved ObjectRenderer classes
+22:30 <@matches> For some definition of improved
+22:30 <@matches> It doesn't actually use the CPU yet
+22:30 <@matches> It'll get there
+22:33 <@matches> You can go and add your MandleBrotSetRenderer now though :P
+22:36 <@sulix> Cool.
+22:37 <@sulix> The circles do trigger that intel driver bug again, though...
+22:38 <@matches> Ah damn
+22:38 <@matches> Would making CIRCLE_FILLED the first ObjectType fix that?
+22:38 <@sulix> It does.
+22:38 <@sulix> (I just checked)
+22:38 <@sulix> Yay intel!
+22:39 <@matches> Haha
+22:49 <@matches> Hey, does our rendering approach completely break compositing?
+22:49 <@matches> Render all circles
+22:49 <@matches> Then render all rectangles...
+22:49 <@matches> There's no depth...
+22:49 <@sulix> Um, maybe.
+22:49 <@matches> :P
+22:49 <@matches> I was just worrying about how to make compositing work using the CPU
+22:49 <@matches> and then I realised it won't work using the GPU as it is either
+22:50 <@sulix> If we're not doing alpha-blending, we could just add a z-coordinate and use the z-buffer.
+22:50 <@sulix> Otherwise, they need to be sorted if they intersect.
+22:50 <@matches> Let's not worry about this for now...
+22:50 <@matches> Even though I spent a rather significant part of my lit review explaining how awesome compositing is
+22:51 <@matches> I guess it doesn't matter, clearly the lit review was not intended for anyone to actually read
+23:42 <@matches> I suspect RenderPixels doesn't work
+23:45 <@sulix> This may be the case.
+--- Day changed Tue Jun 17 2014
+01:05 <@matches> Behold the magnificence of CPU based rendering
+01:06 <@matches> In which we pass a massive pixel array to the ObjectRenderer's and just save it to a BMP
+01:06 <@matches> Because OpenGL
+01:06 <@matches> I'll probably fix it later
+01:11 <@matches> Whoops seg faults ahoy
+01:12 <@matches> Wait I swear it wasn't segfaulting before I commited that
+01:19 <@matches> It segfaults sometimes depending on where you have the view. If you just have one circle and zoom in you can see the amazingly less jagged looking lines.
+01:19 <@matches> That, is a certified result
+10:13 <@sulix> I got the CPU rendered version to show up on the screen.
+10:14 <@sulix> RenderPixels was pretty broken.
+10:38 <@matches> Nice
+10:39 <@sulix> I think the segfaults are it trying to draw outside of the display.
+10:39 <@matches> Yeah
+10:39 <@sulix> I haven't managed to zoom in too much yet.
+10:39 <@matches> My clipping is probably wrongish
+10:40 <@matches> fonttex_frag.glsl? Fear
+10:40 <@sulix> Yeah, the "basictex_frag" file did a bunch of pretty font-specific things.
+10:40 <@matches> Ah
+10:43 <@sulix> The CPU renderer also shows some random lines when there are no outlines on the screen.
+10:43 <@matches> Is it just me or does it look slightly nicer on the CPU when zoomed out a bit
+10:44 <@matches> Well it looks different
+10:44 <@matches> I can't quite work out whether it looks nicer or worse :P
+10:44 <@sulix> Okay, it doesn't segfault if the rectangle outlines are disabled.
+10:45 <@matches> Ah
+10:45 <@matches> Yeah it is setting top/bottom/left/right outside the pixels
+10:45 <@sulix> I think there are just some slightly different edge-case rules when zoomed out.
+10:47 <@matches> With my skills at writing renderers I should be working on the fglrx drivers
+10:47 <@matches> :P
+10:47 <@sulix> Things vanish if you zoom in too much, too.
+10:48 <@matches> Blame it on floats
+10:49 <@matches> The CPU renderer is using a width of 1 pixel less than it should be
+10:49 <@sulix> Why are the floats sinking? :P
+10:49 <@matches> That's unrelated
+10:49 <@matches> It's probably an integer rounding issue somewhere
+10:49 <@matches> When the view gets big something goes to zero
+10:50 <@matches> The CPU renderer transforms everything to pixel positions and then renders using those
+11:02 <@matches> The GPU renderer occassionally leaves off the corners of things
+11:02 <@matches> I never noticed before
+11:02 <@matches> Anyway I think the segfaults are fixed
+11:03 <@matches> Looking at the mysterious disappearances next
+11:04 <@matches> It's integer overflow!
+11:04 <@matches> Facepalm
+11:05 <@sulix> Is it int64_t time?
+11:05 <@sulix> Or magic huge bigint time?
+11:05 <@matches> No I don't think that's necessary
+11:06 <@matches> If the transformed width is smaller or larger than the width of the screen you can surely just ignore it
+11:06 <@matches> Well, depending on what you are drawing
+11:08 <@matches> Well it does matter unless you do some clever maths
+11:08 <@matches> The clever maths was your part of the project...
+11:09 <@matches> So I will just make them int64_t for now
+11:50 <@matches> Pushe
+11:50 <@matches> *d
+11:50 <@matches> I should probably just make all the coorinates into Real instead of int64_t actually
+12:03 <@sulix> Wow: this is pretty awesome.
+12:03 <@sulix> I still get the artefacts, but I have to zoom in a lot more.
+12:03 <@matches> Haha
+12:04 <@sulix> Also, the CPU rendering artefacts and the GPU rendering artefacts are pretty similar on my machine, so it looks like it's just precision causing them.
+12:04 <@matches> That is nice
+15:20 <@matches> I'm trying to do a performance graph. Gnuplot doesn't like it much
+15:20 <@matches> Well actually it's python's crappy interface to gnuplot that doesn't like it
+15:23 <@matches> ... tempted to implement the performance graph in ipdf...
+15:23 <@matches> Just keep adding circles to the document
+15:24 <@matches> So meta
+15:25 <@matches> We need a cool performance graph-y thing
+15:26 <@matches> I think doing it in OpenGL is going to be the least shitty way actually
+15:26 <@matches> This is a wheel that's probably been invented but it was invented wrong
+17:11 <@matches> I've got a performance graph sort of working
+17:11 <@matches> It almost looks like we are doing real science!
+17:13 <@matches> I think we'll need to put some effort into our data analysis though because it's extremely noisy
+17:13 <@matches> Smoothing averages or something
+17:13 <@matches> Smoothing averages are the best
+17:14 <@matches> They make any data look amazing
+17:15 <@matches> Anyway, CPU rendering is only worse than GPU rendering when you force re-rendering
+17:16 <@matches> So well done with the amazingly efficient cached frame buffer
+17:18 <@matches> We can probably make it draw every frame both on the CPU and GPU to compare them in real time
+17:18 <@matches> The possibilities are limitless!
+17:19 <@matches> Graphs graphs graphs!
+17:20 <@matches> Also I did end up using Gnuplot and python (sorry) but I made it slightly less shitty
+17:27 <@matches> I have pushed things
+17:27 <@matches> Also we probably don't need all three of those ways to measure performance
+21:00 <@sulix> I got the graphs working on my laptop: very nice.
+21:00 <@sulix> I can see how more GPU time is used with GPU rendering and more CPU time with CPU rendering quite well, actually.
+21:59 <@matches> So the objects all being in one structure of arrays is sort of inconvenient because the size of objects has to be constant
+21:59 <@matches> Also the size of Real has to be constant
+22:03 <@matches> I guess we could have union {Rect rect, Bezier bezier} and do rectangles and Beziers in the same thing but that is slightly terrifying
+22:04 <@matches> But there's still the problem of Real because as soon as Real becomes arbitrary precision it will start allocating memory and not be fwrite/fread'able
+22:04 <@matches> :S
+22:05 <@matches> You'll still want the struct of arrays because that will make view reparenting much easier
+22:05 <@matches> Gah
+22:06 <@sulix> I'm tempted to just split it by type: Have an array of Rects, an array of Béziers, an array of Circles, etc.
+22:06 <@matches> Yeah but you need to store an "indexes" array as well
+22:06 <@matches> But that might be the least terrible
+22:07 <@matches> Yes that should work
+22:07 <@matches> Our fwrite/fread is still doomed though
+22:07 <@matches> When shit gets Real
+22:07 <@sulix> Yeah, you'd need some indices one way or another.
+22:08 <@sulix> And yeah, we'll need a massive "ConvertWhateverRealIsStoredInTheFileToWhateverRealIsDefined" function or something.
+22:08 <@matches> That will totally be its name
+22:08 <@sulix> (Some old compilers had function name limits... I wonder if modern gcc has)
+22:09 <@sulix> (There is but one way to find out!)
+22:09 <@matches> We don't need an array of circles/ellipses since we get those for free with Rect. Unless you want circular arcs as well as bezier curves
+22:10 <@matches> Which you probably will? So you can approximate beziers
+22:10 <@matches> Anyway I'll worry about adding Beziers first and once we've worked that out others should hopefully be easier
+22:11 <@matches> I was sort of thinking it would be good to be able to define groups of objects as a special object type
+22:11 <@matches> Then you can make paths out of your beziers
+22:11 <@matches> But they won't be fixed size
+22:12 <@matches> Anyway I will see if you have magically solved the problem for me in the morning :P
+22:14 <@sulix> I wouldn't count on it...
+--- Day changed Wed Jun 18 2014
+16:50 <@matches> Behold, the glory of Beziers and Bresenham!
+16:50 <@matches> Breseniers I shall call them
+16:54 <@matches> I'm getting a very strong vibe of "Reinventing graphics technologies from the 1990s" at the moment
+16:55 <@matches> I should probably look at floating point some more
+16:55 <@matches> And reinvent numerical computation technologies from the 1980s
+16:56 <@matches> We need a GPU renderer for the Beziers, and we need to fix save/load to not assume everything is a fixed size, and ...
+16:56 <@matches> Argh
+16:56 <@matches> All the things
+17:00 <@matches> Maybe I'll multithread the CPU rendering too, just to make things more difficult :P
+22:48 <@sulix> So I got some béziers rendering on the GPU.
+22:48 <@sulix> They're not the ones in the document, and they're not in the right spots, though.
+23:12 <@sulix> First 3 béziers are rendering properly on the GPU, then we get corrupted memory or something.
+23:14 <@sulix> Ah: I see, I need some way of uploading which bézier IDs are being used.
+23:41 <@sulix> Okay, Béziers now render on the GPU as well.
+23:43 <@sulix> The code is a little bit ugly, and for that I am sorry, but blame the fact that the GL feature that makes this nice is only about a year old and so nothing supports it.
+23:43 <@sulix> So we're basically uploading all of the raw document data into a huge texture.
+23:47 <@sulix> (If you ask me, the GPU ones also look slightly nicer, though that's probably a bug)
+--- Day changed Thu Jun 19 2014
+13:55 <@matches> From those papers I was under the impression just rendering a bezier on a GPU was an impressive feat, so well done :P
+13:57 <@sulix> (It's basically just a direct port of your CPU implementation, tbh)
+13:59 <@matches> When I zoom out the GPU ones look nicer, there's probably something wrong with my Bresenham implementation
+13:59 <@matches> Although it was mostly shamelessly copied from "Computer Graphics"
+13:59 <@matches> Except they were like "Here it is for 0 < m < 1, the rest can be done by symmetry"
+14:02 <@matches> The lines definitely have gaps on the CPU, and they also seem too thick as you zoom out
+14:02 <@matches> Having said that, I don't think the GPU starts at x0,y0
+14:03 <@matches> Anyway I'm going to implement a Rational number type and see if anything exciting happens (that's how you do research right?)
+14:06 <@matches> Fortunately I sort of did most of this for one of the codejam problems (where it turned out I didn't really need Rational numbers but I thought I did)
+14:20 <@sulix> Fixed the missing bit off the end.
+16:43 <@matches> I suspect Rationals are either not a very good idea, or there is a bug in one of my fundamental operations
+16:43 <@matches> +, -, *, / are hard
+16:56 <@sulix> Is it at least a pretty bug?
+16:59 <@matches> Um...
+16:59 <@matches> No
+17:00 <@matches> It seems buggy for anything other than the {0,0,1,1} starting view
+17:14 <@matches> I suspect it's the expf in the mouse wheel scrolling
+17:14 <@matches> Since you know, exp is definitely not a rational number...
+17:15 <@matches> Hmm, but it shouldn't matter because it will just convert to the nearest rational number
+17:16 <@matches> ie: p = (int64_t)(whatever*1e10) q = (int64_t)1e10
+17:28 <@matches> Oh
+17:28 <@matches> Oh
+17:28 <@matches> Head -> Desk
+17:28 <@matches> Rational & operator*=(const Rational & r) {this->operator=(*this*r); return *this;}
+17:28 <@matches> Rational & operator/=(const Rational & r) {this->operator=(*this*r); return *this;}
+17:29 <@matches> Rational & operator-=(const Rational & r) {this->operator=(*this+r); return *this;}
+17:29 <@matches> I think the worst part is that I actually said "It is probably a bug in my +,-,*,/
+17:29 <@matches> And it still took me this long to notice
+17:30 <@matches> The second worst thing is I've made that sort of mistake like 1000 times before
+17:30 <@matches> The third worst thing is I am recalling that article where the guy says "At least plus and times are sort of the same thing"
+17:30 <@sulix> Feel the power of copy and paste flowing through you.
+17:32 <@matches> Well let's not celebrate just yet, the view still goes to shit. Just slightly slower :P
+17:33 -!- matches changed the topic of #ipdf to: NaNpdf
+17:33 <@matches> Our document supports a view of {-inf,-inf,nan,nan} thus making it truly infinite precision
+17:34 <@sulix> I had that happen a lot when I was writing the original zoom code.
+18:19 <@matches> So I suspect that Rationals are just a really shitty number representation :P
+18:20 <@matches> Specifically, you get integer overflows really really fast
+18:20 <@matches> And if you are going to have a Rational that's BigInt / BigInt you may as well just have a BigFloat
+18:21 <@matches> The ancients were probably right.
+18:21 <@matches> When they decided not to use rationals.
+18:23 <@matches> I guess floats are rationals technically, I mean the representation using P/Q
+18:23 <@matches> I kind of wish I'd done some pure maths here...
+18:23 <@matches> Or paid more attention in second year
+18:28 <@matches> At least I sort of have conclusive evidence that rationals suck. As opposed to "it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain"
+19:00 <@sulix> Floats are not rationals.
+19:00 <@sulix> Not exactly.
+19:01 <@sulix> Something which can be stored in a finite amount of space as a rational cannot always be stored in a finite amount of space as a float, but not vice-versa.
+19:01 <@sulix> e.g.: 1/3
+19:04 <@sulix> Basically floats = rationals where the denominator must be a power of two.
+19:05 <@sulix> (Of course, these are all the same in the limit, but the limit of a cauchy sequence of rationals gives the reals, so the point is kinda moot, there, anyway)
+19:18 <@matches> Yeah floats are a subset of the rationals I think I meant
+--- Day changed Sat Jun 21 2014
+16:22 <@matches> So I got a new smartphone today... I'm having fun trying to zoom in on things
+16:24 <@matches> Actually the zooming isn't annoying so much as the needing to pan around to view all the text in a pdf
+16:25 <@matches> This is what I get for buying the cheapest phone with the lowest resolution they had :P
+16:26 <@matches> I didn't want to get one more expensive than my old one because I'm still convinced I will get around to fixing it one of these days
+16:26 <@matches> Or months. Or years. But eventually.
+--- Day changed Mon Jun 23 2014
+11:51 <@matches> The meeting happened at ~11:30
+12:49 <@sulix> Oh damn. I thought there wasn't going to be one today.
+12:49 <@sulix> What did I miss?
+13:04 <@matches> Basically I told him what we'd done
+13:05 <@matches> Which was rendering on CPU or GPU, and Beziers (but only degree 2)
+13:06 <@matches> And I implemented Rationals but they are terrible, so he sent me some code from an ACM competition about approximating things with Rationals
+13:13 <@sulix> Some javascript guy is trying to convince people that the only numeric data type should be some custom 64-bit decimal thing.
+13:13 <@sulix> A lot of people have started quoting Kahan at him.
+13:20 <@matches> Haha
+--- Log closed Tue Jun 24 16:07:29 2014
+--- Log opened Tue Jun 24 16:17:39 2014
+16:17 -!- Irssi: #ipdf: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
+16:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #ipdf was synced in 15 secs
+--- Day changed Wed Jun 25 2014
+21:41 < matches> So... if we need to put a HTTP server in IPDF I've got us covered...
+21:44 <@sulix> You terrify me.
+21:45 < matches> I still have to work out Websockets
+21:45 < matches> They are silly
+21:46 <@sulix> I take it they aren't compatible with regular sockets.
+21:46 < matches> Well you use a TCP socket, but they aren't just plain text
+21:46 < matches> There's a protocol on top of it
+21:46 < matches> It's wired
+21:47 < matches> *wierd
+21:47 < matches> There are frames and things
+21:47 < matches> And copious amounts of base64 encoding the SHA1 hash of a string prepended to a magic string
+21:48 < matches> Apparently this makes it more secure
+21:48 * sulix looks doubtful.
+21:48 <@sulix> I could understand it being more secure if they actually encrypted things.
+21:48 < matches> They have wss:// as well which is just the same thing through ssl
+21:48 < matches> Yes it doesn't make sense
+21:49 <@sulix> But plain "boring" TCP has been used since (I am assured) the beginning of time and there are still one or two things that use it which are not currently being hacked into.
+21:49 < matches> Haha
+21:49 < matches> I'd like websockets so I can control my robot via my phone through its web browser...
+21:50 < matches> I can probably do that without websockets but it will also be useful for humphrey the rabbit
+21:50 <@sulix> Surely with plain old TCP you could control your robot via telnet, which is more awesome and just as user friendly.
+21:51 < matches> :P
+21:51 < matches> It will have a webcam image though
+21:51 * sulix mutters "ASCII art" under his breath.
+21:52 < matches> I figure if I implement everything in C++ it will be less "Webby"
+21:52 < matches> And more segfaultastic
+21:52 * sulix has a new favourite word.
+--- Day changed Thu Jun 26 2014
+14:58 < matches> I think the WebSocket RFC put this "Framing" business in just to confuse people
+14:58 < matches> My RFC Compliant* WebSocket server just sends the entire message in a single frame
+14:59 < matches> Doesn't TCP already do framing or something
+15:00 < matches> I mean, they specifically allow for frames with up to 2^63 bytes
+15:00 < matches> Sorry, bits not bytes
+15:02 < matches> So server -> client is pretty much TCP but you stick some stupid frame guff on the message
+15:02 < matches> client -> server involves... "masking"
+15:02 < matches> There are several long paragraphs on it
+15:10 < matches> I'm going to pretend this is related to precision
+--- Day changed Wed Jul 02 2014
+17:30 < matches> I put the code repository on github
+17:32 < matches> This is where a more hip and cool person would say something like "#yolo" but I prefer to wonder how I got 26K of lines and you have 65K...
+17:32 < matches> "How many lines of code does it take to draw a rectangle?" 91000
git.ucc.asn.au / ipdf / documents.git / blobdiff
UCC git Repository :: git.ucc.asn.au