--- Log opened Sat Aug 03 15:12:13 2013
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15:12 < matches> Good idea with the IRC channel
15:12 < matches> I'm Sam Moore by the way
15:14 < Callum_> Hey. Finally someone else 
15:19 < Callum_> Hmm should probably close the app so my phone has enough battery to get me home. 
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 03 15:51:28 2013
--- Log opened Sat Aug 03 15:51:51 2013
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15:52 -!- matches changed the topic of #mctxuwa_softdev to: MCTX3420 UWA
15:52 -!- matches changed the topic of #mctxuwa_softdev to: MCTX3420 UWA - Team 4 (Software, Firmware, GUI)
16:40 -!- matches changed the topic of #mctxuwa_softdev to: MCTX3420 UWA - Team 4 (Software and stuff)
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16:54 -!- You're now known as sam__
16:54 < sam__> Yuck
16:54 -!- You're now known as sam_moore
16:55 < sam_moore> That works
16:55 < james__> Yuck?
16:55 < james__> Oh right
16:55 < james__> all the underscores?
16:55 < sam_moore> Yeah
16:55 < james__> its a bit of a pain
17:01 < sam_moore> I think you might be able to comment on changes if you use github
17:01 < sam_moore> I'll see if I can copy the repository there
17:01 < james__>  you should be able to
17:01 < sam_moore> It does seem useful
17:01 < james__> its what it waas designed for really
17:01 < sam_moore> Yeah, gitweb is a bit more limited
17:02 < james__> Yeah.  Or at least the features aren't as easily accesible as in github
17:10 < sam_moore> I'll clone the repository into github now
17:24 < james__> Need to be logged in but it looks like you can comment
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--- Day changed Sun Aug 04 2013
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10:47 < Callum> morning
10:49 < sam_moore> Hi
10:52 < Callum> What is there we need to get done? i haven't really done anything yet
10:53 < sam_moore> We need to write a progress report on what we need to get done :P
10:53 < Callum> Thats the other thing i wanted to know, is the progress report per person or per group?
10:53 < sam_moore> It's per group, and it only has to be one page
10:54 < Callum> I'v had a quick look through the stuff online and only thing i can see is the example but it looks like its per person in that
10:54 < Callum> ok, that makes things a lot easier then
10:54 < sam_moore> We are meant to have our own technical diaries with handwritten notes
10:54 < Callum> yea saw that as well
10:55 < sam_moore> So, at the meeting we sort of worked out a vague idea of what systems we'll need
10:55 < Callum> yea had a read through the meeting notes
10:56 < Callum> seemed like a solid start
10:56 < sam_moore> Yes, I think I'll do a block diagram about it
10:56 < sam_moore> Since I actually have a raspberry pi I've been playing with it
10:57 < sam_moore> No one's really done that much though, to be fair our group was only completely formed by Friday
10:57 < Callum> Well, I'm the guy that moved into the group :p
10:58 < sam_moore> Is there anything in particular you'd like to work on?
10:59 < Callum> Il have another look through the meeting notes, but i don't really have any experience working with this hardware. Just mainly C + Java, but i pick stuff up pretty quick
10:59 < Callum> well, any hardware other than what we did in embedded
11:02 < sam_moore> We need to learn more about the actual requirements of the system I think, not sure how much we can work out without talking to all the other groups
11:03 < Callum> Yea true. Might have a play around with git sometime soon to get used to it
11:03 < sam_moore> Oh, something I listed in an email was image processing, that will be important
11:05 < sam_moore> Anyway, if you can try and find something that interests you that seems useful and just write a little bit on that, it would be great
11:06 < sam_moore> Learning git would be useful, you can write about that, it doesn't matter if Rowan does it as well since we'll all need to learn more
11:07 < sam_moore> I know enough of git to work on my own projects, but there are a lot of features designed for group work that I've never used
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11:42 < Callum> Sam, I think i got a different ssh key from github; So if im going to use this you'll likely need to add it
11:42 < Callum> And hey James
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12:09 < sam_moore> Callum__: Ok, send it to me
12:11 < sam_moore> If you have github accounts let me know those as well
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12:11 < james__> Hey
12:12 < sam_moore> Hi
12:12 < sam_moore> You guys can't see what's written in the channel whilst you're not in it, right?
12:12 < james__> How are things
12:12 < james__> Nope
12:12 < james__> Its only once you log in  that you can read it
12:13 < sam_moore> I'm messing around with git a bit, I've sent an email about the progress report
12:13 < james__> Unless you log it there isn't any way to go back to previous convos
12:13 < sam_moore> I'd like to meet at 2pm on Monday if that's possible
12:13 < james__> sounds good
12:13 < sam_moore> I'm running irssi in screen on a server, so I'll have everything logged
12:13 < sam_moore> I'll look into making the logs available on git
12:14 < Callum__> think anyone would care if i go to G19 without the safety meeting? not like we're actually doing anything.
12:14 < james__> i'm using chatzilla so there is an inbuilt log function
12:15 < james__> Don't know tbh
12:15 < sam_moore> Callum__: No, but just try not do anything unsafe or the rest of us will get the blame :P
12:15 < Callum__> well, we could just meet somewhere else. Not like we need to go there
12:16 < sam_moore> Adrian did say that we could have people visit the lab, but we are responsible for anyone we bring in without the safety course.
12:16 < sam_moore> Ok, what's another good place?
12:16 < james__> No idea
12:16 < james__> The lab is kinda nice and quite/out of the way
12:16 < Callum__> ok well it should be fine. If it's a suitable meeting location than just go with it.
12:17 < sam_moore> I don't think it will be a big deal to go in G19, just don't use any equipment. It is a good place.
12:17 < Callum__> Yea. just making sure it wont be a problem
12:18 < Callum__> Im going to get some lunch. 
12:40 < sam_moore> You need to use git@github.com:matchesucc/MCTX3420.git to commit using your ssh key
12:41 < sam_moore> If you give me your username, I think you can use https://github.com/matchesucc/MCTX3420.git
12:41 < sam_moore> You should be able to commit to git.ucc with your ssh key
12:42 < sam_moore> But I think we'll prefer github. It looks like it has more features. I'll use that as the main repository and keep git.ucc up to date in case github explodes.
12:43 < Callum__> username: Callum-
12:45 < sam_moore> Right, before you commit your changes, pull from the server
12:45 < sam_moore> If your repository is "up to date" with the server and you make changes, it is really easy
12:46 < sam_moore> If it isn't and you have changes that contradict something done on the server, we'll have to merge the repositories, and from what I've heard that's usually a pain
12:47 < sam_moore> We'll probably have to deal with it at some point.
12:48 < Callum__> how do you pull from github>
12:51 < sam_moore> Not sure how you do it in the gui, is there a "pull" or "fetch" button
12:52 < Callum__> not that i can see
12:52 < sam_moore> Hang on, I'll start windows and see if I can work out how to do it
12:53 < james__> are you logged in?
12:53 < sam_moore> Yes
12:53 < sam_moore> Cool, you can even edit the files entirely from github
12:54 < Callum__> you can?
12:54 < sam_moore> Well, I can
12:54 < sam_moore> I added Callum- as a collaborator; can you see the repository?
12:55 < Callum__> i could see it before
12:55 < Callum__> wait hang on
12:56 < james__> can you add me aswell?
12:56 < james__> username: firefields
12:57 < Callum__> i can edit it from the browser
12:57 < sam_moore> Done
12:57 < sam_moore> Excellent, that's a start
12:59 < james__> I can comment
13:00 < sam_moore> The browser editor actually looks pretty good
13:01 < sam_moore> Hmm
13:01 < sam_moore> We need to be able to pull from github to our own machines though
13:01 < sam_moore> So we can actually run code
13:02 < sam_moore> I can do it myself using the command line
13:02 < sam_moore> I'll see how to do it using the GUI
13:03 < james__> I am having a look through the documentation now trying to find it
13:07 < sam_moore> I wonder what happens when two people edit a file at the same time
13:07 < james__> Lets edit the readme?
13:08 < sam_moore> Alright.
13:08 < james__> I am currently editing
13:08 < james__> Can you get in?
13:09 < sam_moore> Yes, and it looks the same
13:09 < sam_moore> Make some changes and commit it, then I'll go and we'll see what happens
13:09 < james__> Done
13:09 < sam_moore> It says that you have committed since I started editing
13:10 < sam_moore> Whoops, but I could still overwrite it
13:11 < sam_moore> Ok, at least it gives us a warning, that's nice
13:11 < sam_moore> I think the key to this will be: 1) Try and work on different source files 2) Send lots of spam to IRC when you do stuff
13:11 < james__> Also
13:11 < james__> if you look in history my changes are still there
13:11 < sam_moore> Yeah, that's nice
13:12 < sam_moore> And I think we can go back to them
13:12 < james__> I am reading about this fork and pull method as well.  Might work well
13:13 < james__> Essentially you fork the repo. Make changes then request for it to be pulled back into the master repo 
13:13 < sam_moore> Yes, that will likely be the best way to go about it.
13:13 < james__> That way all changes can be viewed and then confirmed before going into the master copy
13:15 < james__> https://help.github.com/articles/fork-a-repo
13:15 < james__> and this https://help.github.com/articles/using-pull-requests
13:17 < sam_moore> I think in the long run it will be easier to use the command line when you work on your local machine
13:17 < Callum__> might just end up learning how to do it all from command line anyway
13:17 < sam_moore> All the tutorials seem to give the command line stuff
13:17 < Callum__> yea
13:17 < Callum__> suppose you could use the gui just to look at whats there
13:17 < sam_moore> `git add remote github git@github.com:matchesucc/MCTX3420.git`
13:17 < sam_moore> `git pull github master`
13:17 < sam_moore> Make changes
13:17 < sam_moore> `git add .`
13:18 < sam_moore> `git commit`
13:18 < sam_moore> `git push github master`
13:18 < sam_moore> Well, that's just directly going to the repository without forking it
13:19 < Callum__> is the add thing for staging?
13:19 < sam_moore> Yeah; you have to tell it what changes to stage to the commit
13:19 < Callum__> yea
13:19 < sam_moore> I think there is an option to automatically add all changed files
13:20 < sam_moore> I've always just manually done them, makes it easier to work out what I actually did before writing the commit message
13:20 < james__> Do we want to fork first
13:20 < sam_moore> Probably
13:20 < james__> That way someone can't make a change that is incorrect into the master
13:21 < sam_moore> Yes, this sounds good
13:22 < sam_moore> It won't let me fork it (probably because I'm the "owner")
13:24 < james__> I have forked succesfully
13:25 < james__> maybe branch?
13:25 < sam_moore> No, branches are different
13:25 < james__> Right...
13:25 < james__> well i made a branch for you? :P
13:26 < sam_moore> It doesn't matter if I directly edit the master repository anyway; I'll have to deal with all the pull requests before I do anything mysekf
13:27 < sam_moore> Yeah, we don't want to use branches just yet
13:28 < sam_moore> A fork is for each person working on the code; a branch is for when you want to make changes to something that might break parts of the code that already work
13:28 < sam_moore> For example: You have some really badly written code, but it does what it's meant to do
13:28 < sam_moore> So you make a branch "Improve networking code" or something like that
13:29 < sam_moore> Then you redo it, and only when you're done you merge your branch back into the master, getting rid of all the old code
13:30 < james__> Fair enough. I think i have made a pull request...
13:30 < sam_moore> Cool
13:31 < sam_moore> Now it should be in the main repository
13:32 < james__> yeah. worked
13:32 < sam_moore> I show up as the author of your changes, which is a bit silly
13:33 < Callum__> firefields opened this pull request 15 hours ago
13:33 < Callum__> what
13:34 < sam_moore> Is the clock on your local machine correct?
13:34 < Callum__> yea
13:34 < Callum__> matchesucc merged 1 commit into matchesucc:master  from firefields:master  2 minutes ago
13:34 < Callum__> it also says that
13:34 < james__> Right.... Thats weird
13:35 < sam_moore> You guys should also be able to merge the pull requests, since you're collaborators
13:36 < Callum__> alright
13:36 < james__> Yeah. Should be able to
13:36 < sam_moore> So in summary: Fork the repository, make a pull request, go and check that nothing will break horribly, and then you can merge it
13:36 < james__> pretty much
13:36 < sam_moore> Cool
13:36 < sam_moore> We should put this in the progress report
13:37 < Callum__> Yea, detailing how we plan to collaborate the code
13:38 < sam_moore> So, should I put our IRC channel log into git?
13:39 < Callum__> probably a good idea
13:39 < sam_moore> That way people who weren't in the channel can read conversations they missed 
13:39 < Callum__> unlikely be that useful but it would be good to have everything archived
13:42 < james__> Its always good to have everything archived
13:47 < Callum__> so noone else getting weird timestamps on github
13:47 < james__> not that i can see
13:48 < sam_moore> No, they all make sense to me
13:48 < Callum__> also my forked repo doesnt have the updated readme
13:48 < Callum__> iv added the upstream and tried fetch upstream and doesnt seem to do anything
13:48 < sam_moore> Try merging after the fetch
13:48 < sam_moore> fetch + merge = pull
13:49 < sam_moore> "Pull request" is a bit confusing, because you're not asking to pull from my repository; you're requesting that I pull from yours
13:49 < Callum__> yea, i got that. how do i do the merge?
13:50 < sam_moore> git merge upstream/master
13:51 < Callum__> yup that worked
13:51 < sam_moore> The GUI seems really terrible, I have no idea how to do this stuff with it
13:52 < sam_moore> I thought it might be easier if people weren't used to the command line, but there aren't that many commands
13:52 < Callum__> yea
13:52 < james__> Its easier to comment etc
13:53 < james__> But some of the functionality is horribly buried
13:53 < sam_moore> Do you get a text editor in the terminal when you want to commit?
13:54 < sam_moore> Oh well, whatever people find easiest
14:09 < Callum__> alright well i just submitted a pull request and accepted it
14:10 < sam_moore> Yep
14:10 < sam_moore> Callum- authored in 15 hours
14:11 < sam_moore> ?
14:11 < Callum__> ahahahahahaah
14:11 < sam_moore> Are you from the future?
14:11 < sam_moore> Does IRC mess with the space time continuum
14:11 < Callum__> it says 15 minutes ago for me, but the rest are 17 hjours ago
14:11 < Callum__> i must be from the future :o
14:12 < sam_moore> Someone's clock is out of skew
14:13 < sam_moore> That is really wierd
14:13 < sam_moore> You merged the pull request... before the file was changed... according to this history
14:14 < sam_moore> Oh!
14:14 < sam_moore> Is it because github is based in the US
14:14 < Callum__> but for you all the times are right apart from mine?
14:14 < Callum__> and for me all the times are wrong but mine
14:15 < sam_moore> Well it's only showing relative times
14:15 < Callum__> or do you get weird results from james as well?
14:15 < sam_moore> James times look reasonable
14:15 < Callum__> hmm. weird
14:15 < sam_moore> But notice how a lot of our stuff is on 3rd August, it's actually the 4th today
14:16 < Callum__> hmm yea
14:17 < sam_moore> I kind of think we should fix this, it's not a major issue but it will certainly be confusing
14:18 < sam_moore> Hey, wierd, the times look sensible in git.ucc
14:18 < sam_moore> http://git.ucc.asn.au/?p=matches/MCTX3420.git;a=summary
14:19 < Callum__> yea agreed 
14:19 < Callum__> and that is kinda weird
14:20 < Callum__> i cant seem to find anything in account settings for a timezone
14:21 < Callum__> Anything else we need done by tomorrow? because i have a bunch of other stuff I'd like to get done
14:21 < sam_moore> While you're in account settings, you can set your author name for commits
14:22 < sam_moore> No, there's nothing urgent at this stage
14:22 < sam_moore> It's only the first week, and we only need 1 page
14:22 < sam_moore> We can be like "Here is a page of details on how we got Git to work" if we have to
14:22 < Callum__> Yea just we need to make sure we have enough for 1 page
14:23 < Callum__> hmm, true i suppose. set up IRC + git repo + discussed an outline on what is going to be required
14:24 < Callum__> Tbh he'l likely be happy if we just give him a summary of those meeting minutes
14:25 < Callum__> Anyway i'l divert my attention for now then. If you come across anything interesting or something that can be done il stick around in the channel
14:25 < sam_moore> Ok, thanks
14:26 < sam_moore> The first automatic commit of the irc logs seems to have worked!
14:26 < sam_moore> It also copies everything to git.ucc so we have a backup
14:26 < Callum__> nice
14:27 < sam_moore> The times might be correct as well :P
14:27 < Callum__> was just like "where is it? " then i realise i was looking at my forked repo
14:27 < sam_moore> Oh, just make sure you don't push anything to the git.ucc repo, because it doesn't go the other way
14:27 < sam_moore> Actuall I'll just remove everyone's keys to stop that from happening
14:28 < Callum__> haha, good to be sure. We need to make sure the other 2 have this sorted out. hopefully they rock up to the meeting tomorrow
14:28 < Callum__> oh wow. the logs go all the way back to when you first connected
14:28 < Callum__> haha
14:30 < Callum__> and according to me the logs were commited 15 hours ago
14:32 < sam_moore> Yeah, my logs will be the best to keep because I don't have to quit, so I should get everything
14:33 < Callum__> yea
14:34 < Callum__> Sigh. end of first week. already just written myself a fairly long list of things i need to do, which is by no means comprehensive
14:36 < sam_moore> I think I have a lot of work to do as well, I should do something for another unit
14:36 < sam_moore> See you later
14:36 < Callum__> later
15:32 < sam_moore> Ok, so pretty much anyone can comment on our stuff, and pretty much anyone can submit bug reports
15:32 < sam_moore> I'm going to say that's useful, and we should tell all the other teams about it
15:33 < sam_moore> Also I was supposed to go do something else, whoops
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18:35 < sam_moore> I changed my username because someone pointed out it sounds like "matches succ"
18:35 < sam_moore> But the old links should redirect
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18:37 < sam_moore> Whoops
20:21 < Callum__> whoops?
21:20 < sam_moore> EOF From client
21:32 < sam_moore> I wonder how I can get people's forks to merge into the main repository without them having to issue a pull request
21:34 < sam_moore> Ah, I can't, because basically they have total control over their own fork
21:35 < sam_moore> Everyone just remember to fetch from upstream before you do work and issue a pull request when you are done, and hopefully things will stay relatively in sync.
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11:19 < Callum> hallo
11:29 < sam_moore> Hi
11:30 < sam_moore> I've spoken to Omid from the electronics team, they are in charge of the "microcontroller"
11:31 < sam_moore> Apparently they think a raspberry pi is a good choice
11:31 < sam_moore> I told him we thought we might need a lower level device to do the ADC/DAC in particular
11:32 < sam_moore> But they seem to think a raspberry pi by itself will work
11:33 < sam_moore> I'm kind of not sure who's responsible for this part, since we have "server hardware" and they have "microcontroller" and the raspberry pi is sort of both
11:33 < sam_moore> But if we agree we want a raspberry pi it probably won't be an issue
11:33 < sam_moore> Also apparently the unit coordinators recommended the raspberry pi as well
11:34 < Callum> Yea he did
11:34 < james__> Well we are using the raspberry pi as a server
11:34 < james__> And we can bootstrap microcontrollers onto it
11:34 < james__> So i guess we are in charge of the pi
11:35 < james__> And the are in charge of the hardware around it
11:35 < james__> *they
11:35 < sam_moore> Seems logical
11:36 < sam_moore> I don't know if you get email notifications; I did a block diagram using the ideas from our first meeting
11:36 < sam_moore> I kind of added some thoughts of my own
11:38 < sam_moore> Hopefully it makes sense
11:41 < sam_moore> If either of you gets time, would you like to start typing some of the progress report?
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11:51 < james__> Do we have to submit a progress report?  Because the guide to mechatronics project work that was on lms said we had to do some things for week 1 but not that
11:52 < sam_moore> I'm pretty sure we do
11:52 < sam_moore> Hang on
11:53 < sam_moore> All teams are expected to report next monday (see the report format in the unit outline/overview).
11:53 < sam_moore> All teams must review their sub-system and provide high level detail of what is required.
11:54 < sam_moore>  All team must take an integrated approach. (I assume this means we have to start talking to other teams ASAP)
11:54 < sam_moore> I think the block diagram is a good start for the high level detail
11:54 < sam_moore> Then make some notes about how we're collaborating using git
11:55 < james__> git and irc
11:55 < sam_moore> We should decide whether Rowan or I will be the meeting convener
11:56 < james__> I think you
11:56 < james__> Just because you actually know what is going on
11:56 < sam_moore> Yes, I'm happy to do it and I think I can do a good job
11:56 < sam_moore> I just don't want to try and take over the group or something
11:56 < sam_moore> I have a good idea of what's going on, but we'll still need everyone to contribute
11:57 < sam_moore> I'm not a particular expert in any area, I just sort of know enough to have a general idea of how to approach things
11:57 < james__> Its important that the person who represents us has a firm knowledge base of whats possible and what we plan to do. Ultimately you are the person who best fills those requirements
11:58 < sam_moore> Ok, thanks, if everyone agrees we'll tell Rowan that when we meet
11:58 < sam_moore> And he can still talk to his friends for us, in fact the more of us that can communicate with the other teams the better
11:59 < james__> True
12:00 < james__> there isn't anything that says he can't talk to others
12:00 < sam_moore> Omid said his team was going to rotate the meeting convener, maybe we could try that later on once everyone has a better idea of what we're doing
12:00 < sam_moore> Anyway, I should do some other work, see you at 2pm
12:01 < james__> Yeah might be worth it.  Gives everyone a taster
12:01 < james__> okay see you then
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20:38 < sam_moore> I'm going to try using the GitHub issues and milestones thing
20:39 < sam_moore> It might help with keeping track of what we need to do and what we've done
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20:50 < sam_moore> I think we had some difficulty setting specific goals for this week
20:50 < sam_moore> I can try and put together some longer term goals as a start, if that's helpful
20:51 < sam_moore> Hmm
20:52 < sam_moore> We weren't given a lot of requirements that the guy was asking us about
21:06 < sam_moore> So the most important task seems to be "determine those requirements"
21:07 < sam_moore> Well, we talked about it in the meeting, but I'm going to make GitHub issues for each of the areas so we have a good record
21:32 < Callum__> Sam are you talking to yourself or am i not just seeing the other messages?
21:35 < sam_moore> Yeah, just ranting
21:36 < sam_moore> Well if you read the messages, then I was talking to you :P
21:37 < Callum__> haha just they seemed like they were structured like you were responding to someone
21:39 < sam_moore> I guess that's how I'm used to using IRC, people tend to say stuff broadly directed at anyone even though they won't get an immediate reply
21:39 < sam_moore> Or even if they don't need a reply
21:45 < Callum__> Fair enough
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15:12 < Callum__> Is the only image processing that needs doing detecting the edge of the can? (and doing measuring how it changes with time etc)
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15:39 < Callum__> hey
15:39 < james__> what up
15:39 < sam_moore> Hi
15:39 < Callum__> Is the only image processing that needs doing detecting the edge of the can? (and doing measuring how it changes with time etc)
15:40 < sam_moore> Callum__: I think so
15:40 < james__> As far as i understand it yes
15:40 < Callum__> plus just booted up ubuntu on laptop. havent touched it since i did C programming a year ago xD
15:40 < sam_moore> It would also be nice to just have unprocessed images streamed to the GUI
15:40 < Callum__> yea what i was thinking
15:41 < Callum__> firstly, i can look into only processing a portion of the image, so we could get away with a larger resolution
15:41 < sam_moore> With the server side interface, I'm starting to think I'll ditch the apache2 webserver + CGI and integrate a minimal webserver + the lower level stuff into the same program
15:41 < Callum__> and openCV has a couple of algorithms to detect edges
15:41 < Callum__> so will likely look into one or 2 of those
15:41 < sam_moore> Just thinking about all the layers that are involved with the CGI approach... it probably won't turn out easier to code, and it will definitely be slower
15:42 < sam_moore> Plus, if we really care about performance, the apache2 webserver has a lot of features we don't care about
15:42 < james__> As long as i can access the raw files etc i should be able to display it via a gui
15:42 < sam_moore> The main one being it's designed to cope with multiple users well, and we want to configure it to only allow ONE user
15:43 < sam_moore> Yes, that sounds good
15:44 < Callum__> responding to who? me or james?
15:44 < sam_moore> Um... both now
15:44 < Callum__> haah
15:45 < sam_moore> Anyway, I've realised that our software will place an upper limit on the quality of the sensors
15:45 < james__> true
15:45 < sam_moore> Since we weren't given a requirement on quality, we should aim to get it as high as feasible
15:45 < sam_moore> But sensors group needs to have some idea of the upper limit that our software will place on quality
15:45 < Callum__> yea. 
15:46 < james__> Start simple and ramp it up until the hardware breaks?
15:46 < sam_moore> No point streaming 1000 images a second if the JavaScript GUI can't send requests that fast.
15:46 < sam_moore> Yep.
15:46 < sam_moore> I know you're supposed to do task break downs and all that time management stuff, but the fact is we need to experiment with actual code to work out the best implementation
15:47 < james__> yeah. break it down into code and test code?
15:48 < sam_moore> Maybe?
15:49 < sam_moore> Well, we've got a high level idea of the software
15:49 < sam_moore> The first tasks should be "decide on the best software implementation of each level"
15:49 < sam_moore> To do that we need to test some minimalistic implementations
15:50 < Callum__> yea
15:50 < sam_moore> So, to set a goal for week 2, can it be "Decide on software implementation at each point in the block diagram"
15:51 < sam_moore> And "Determine upper limit on data transfer rate through software systems"
15:51 < sam_moore> The second one might take a bit longer.
15:52 < Callum__> githubs down for maintenance. hahah
15:52 < sam_moore> That happened like 2 seconds after I submitted a comment on the CGI stuff
15:53 < sam_moore> For a while it was showing me a Unicorn (?)
15:53 < Callum__> yea i got that before
15:53 < Callum__> when trying to access on my laptop
15:53 < sam_moore> Well... we have the git.ucc server
15:54 < sam_moore> But I was starting to like the Issues and Comments and all those actual features
15:54 < Callum__> hmm. doubt it will be down for long. will have to see
16:10 < Callum__> back up
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18:35 < Rowan> test test
18:35 < Rowan> ??
18:43 < Callum__> Hey
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18:56 -github:#mctxuwa_softdev- [MCTX3420] none pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/ZDMvew
18:56 -github:#mctxuwa_softdev- MCTX3420/master 64b0cd9 Sam Moore: Investigate software for interfacing with hardware via HTTP requests...
18:56 -github:#mctxuwa_softdev- MCTX3420/master 5afaa23 Sam Moore: Merge branch 'master' of github:szmoore/MCTX3420
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20:46 < sam_moore> Whoops, I was trying to make it less spammy and ended up making it spam us
20:53 < Callum__> haha nice work
20:58 < sam_moore> I have a minimal web server in C done
20:58 < sam_moore> It was surprisingly easy actually
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21:05 -github:#mctxuwa_softdev- MCTX3420/master c1321a7 Sam Moore: Test webserver with minimalist JavaScript...
21:05 -github:#mctxuwa_softdev- MCTX3420/master 1b2939d Sam Moore: Merge branch 'master' of github:szmoore/MCTX3420...
21:07 < sam_moore> Hooray, more spam
21:07 < sam_moore> Maybe I should just turn that off.
21:35 < Callum__> Maybe, its kinda goods to know when people commit things though, restricted to one line would be good
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14:09 < Callum__> actually so much work to do already. 
14:47 < sam_moore> Yep
15:15 < Callum__> well iv spent some time thinking over this, finally get around to writing it down. so iv probably spent close to 4 hours or so thinking about it (while doing other things) but really only spent an hour and a half according to diary
15:25 < sam_moore> We can always flesh out people's reports with graphs and stuff
15:27 < Callum__> well we doing 1 per person or group?
15:29 < sam_moore> 1 per person is the safest way to go I think
15:29 < sam_moore> We can always summarise them
15:30 < Callum__> well, tbh i think we should do 1 per person and summarise, but not necessarily go for a full page. thing is not sure how they expect us to do 1 page for 5 people AND be detailed
15:30 < sam_moore> Yep
15:31 < Callum__> so they might end up making it 1 per person anyway. 
15:31 < Callum__> not very well thought out either way
15:31 < sam_moore> Let's just submit a multiple page report, with a bit from each person and a summary. If some people have less than a page that's fine.
15:32 < Callum__> Yea, agreed thats the best way to go about it. Unless they complain about it being too long
15:32 < sam_moore> That's why we include a summary :P
15:33 < sam_moore> Although, it might be difficult to make the summary actually summarise things, since everyone's already using pretty concise summaries
15:33 < sam_moore> Oh well, writing more stuff is safer to start with.
15:34 < Callum__> hmm. its kind of a pain though, write it all down in your book...oh look now i need to rewrite most of it for a report..
15:34 < sam_moore> Ah crap, I forgot about the book
15:34 < Callum__> haha
15:34 < sam_moore> Yeah... write it all down in the git commit messages, write it all down in the report, write it all down in the diary...
15:35 < sam_moore> I suppose in the "Real World" you have to do stuff like this
15:35 < Callum__> yea true 
18:16 < Callum__> Not sure when il get round to writing what i'v done but il do it tonight some time. We finalising it tomorrow and printing it off then?
18:27 < sam_moore> Yes, I'd like to have it done before the meeting, or at least do it first thing in the meeting
18:27 < sam_moore> Then there are some things I need to ask everyone about to progress with my part of the code
18:27 < sam_moore> Since I'm sort of doing the bit in the middle that gets all the other bits to talk to each other
18:28 < sam_moore> I think it would be good to keep all the raspberry pi code in a single process, running in seperate threads
18:29 < sam_moore> But to do that we'd need everyone to use the same language
18:30 < sam_moore> Also we need to start thinking about the structure of the system in a bit more detail
18:31 < sam_moore> Like: We can't just transfer data straight to a GUI, because the user will want to use the GUI to start the experiment, then go away and come back later to view results (and possibly save them on their own machine)
18:32 < sam_moore> Also if we do transfer everything straight to the GUI we'd be limited by the speed of the GUI, and JavaScript requests are slow
18:34 < Callum__> yea
18:34 < sam_moore> Pretty easy to just dump stuff to a data file, but we probably also want the ability to do it in realtime
18:35 < sam_moore> Anyway, good luck, see you tomorrow
18:36 < Callum__> Alright, cya tomorrow them
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 13 07:49:14 2013
--- Log opened Tue Aug 13 07:55:27 2013
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10:01 < Callum> So apparently we have a new member..
10:12 < sam_moor1> Yep, Jeremy Tan, apparently he's doing CS as well?
10:13 < sam_moor1> So, with the two sources of confusion we have so far...
10:13 < sam_moor1> 1. The Camera - Adrian thinks we need one, Sensors team doesn't, everyone needs to recheck calculations
10:14 < sam_moor1> The "Can" team wanted to use some kind of tiny can with a relatively thick wall, Adrian recommended a Coke Can, Oliver used Rockstar Cans last year and recommended them
10:14 < Callum> well, they may be right in saying we may not be able to do any proper processing on it
10:14 < Callum> but we will need one to relay whats actually HAPPENING in the system
10:14 < Callum> surely the sensors team see that..
10:15 < sam_moor1> I guess, I told them in their meeting it would probably be useful
10:15 < sam_moor1> Anyway...
10:15 < sam_moor1> We all got in trouble for not communicating between teams well enough
10:15 < sam_moor1> So now the 9am session is for teams to communicate (at least one member is meant to go)
10:15 < Callum> how many people went to the lecture?
10:15 < sam_moor1> About 6
10:16 < Callum> haha
10:16 < sam_moor1> I think only one team didn't have a representative, electronics?
10:16 < Callum> hmm. thats not too bad then. 
10:16 < Callum> but still, not really our fault communication was poor. we attempted to set up meetings and to convene with others.
10:17 < Callum> The only other thing we could have done is actually told people, right we're meeting at this time. come or dont (then you'd have like 1 or 2 people at most)
10:17 < sam_moor1> Yeah, I really think this project needed some kind of direction at the start
10:17 < sam_moor1> I think that's what we're going to have to do
10:18 < sam_moor1> We're going to have to be more assertive; we think we need Arduinos, electronics team doesn't seem to know, we should just say "Right, we're using some Arduinos"
10:18 < sam_moor1> At least that's the vibe I got from Adrian
10:18 < sam_moor1> Also what happened to my name
10:18 < Callum> hmm ok. it would help if we had the team convener meeting to do that
10:18 -!- You're now known as sam_moore
10:19 < Callum> and no idea
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10:20 < sam_moore> Also, so far we've neglected physical details a bit
10:20 < sam_moore> Lastly, we need to start ordering things as soon as possible
10:21 < sam_moore> Oh, and we (as in, all teams) are supposed to have a schedule of tasks agreed upon
10:21 < sam_moore> Right, I need to have lunch
10:21 < sam_moore> *breakfast
10:22 < sam_moore> Then I guess I can panic some more
10:23 < Callum> haha. we'v only had 2 weeks to work on this really. We can pull it back.
10:24 < sam_moore> The scary part is where they do a very similar project every year and no one ever succeeds :S
10:25 < sam_moore> They seem to think simply throwing the entire class at it (instead of one team of 6) will make it work this time
10:25 < sam_moore> Oh well, they can't just fail the entire class
10:25 < sam_moore> It would be nice to actually succeed though
10:30 < Callum> Yea, well even if it doesnt work a lot of the marking will come from the shit like the diary
10:30 < Callum> but yes, it would be nice to see a can go boom
11:57 < Callum> alright so am i still doing the taking images thing and storing it? Coz we pretty much need the camera. what we do with the images though dno
11:58 < sam_moore> Just take the images and save them to a file for a start I guess
12:00 < Callum> alright. 
12:13 < Callum> I might reinstall linux on my laptop, stick with ubuntu or go debian?
12:51 < sam_moore> I'd recommend debian
12:51 < sam_moore> It's not that much harder to use, but it's closer to raspian
13:06 < Callum> alright. any port better to use?
13:15 < sam_moore> Oh, stick with "stable"
13:15 < sam_moore> ie: Wheezy
13:16 < sam_moore> No matter what you do, do NOT get "Sid"
13:18 < Callum> nah i meant the architecture
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13:20 < jtanx> yallo
13:20 < Callum> hey
13:21 < sam_moore> Hi
13:23 < jtanx> i should say that right now I cant access g19 because I haven't gone through the safety induction yet
13:23 < sam_moore> Callum: The architecture shouldn't matter too much
13:24 < Callum> we can let you in. As long as you don't do anything stupid it will be fine 
13:24 < Callum> alright
13:25 < sam_moore> We can just compile code on the RPi itself, or if that's too slow (I doubt it) there will be cross compilers
13:25 < Callum> true
13:25 < sam_moore> It's just nice to be able to run test software in debian
13:25 < jtanx> so do you have access to an/the RPi and the other microcontrollers, or is that tba
13:26 < sam_moore> We have access to "an" (not "the") RPi
13:26 < Callum> rowan has an arduino too
13:26 < sam_moore> Ah, that's good
13:26 < Callum> atleast i think he said he did
13:27 < Callum> just dont know the exact hardware we're using and won't get access to it for a few weeks atleast (hopefully not too long. need to make sure other teams are doing everything on time)
13:27 < Callum> speaking of which we should write up a time schedule for our team and make sure a project one gets written up
13:27 < sam_moore> Adrian said to allow for 6 weeks ordering time
13:28 < sam_moore> Yeah, the entire class needs to agree on a schedule
13:28 < Callum> hmm. true i guess, by the time adrian gets the bill of materials, clears it and the stuff gets ordered in
13:28 < Callum> but at the current rate shit wont be chosen in time
13:29 < jtanx> i'm surprised that not much has been done in three weeks
13:29 < sam_moore> The problem is there are too many people working on this
13:29 < Callum> its been less than 3 weeks though
13:30 < sam_moore> Right. Let's make a schedule then.
13:30 < sam_moore> Just a second
13:30 < Callum> we only got the teams on like wed first week
13:30 < jtanx> ok
13:31 < Callum> And having 5-6 people per team across 6 teams without a project manager...makes sense
13:31 < sam_moore> Haha
13:31 < sam_moore> Ok, so I have an excel document
13:31 < sam_moore> Anyone here actually made a schedule for a project?
13:32 < jtanx> nope
13:32 < sam_moore> Welp
13:32 < jtanx> ms project was suggested in cits3200
13:32 < jtanx> nice gantt chart and everything
13:32 < sam_moore> Does it allow collaborative editing?
13:33 < sam_moore> Also, is there an open source version :P
13:33 < sam_moore> Ok, I've shared a google spreadsheet
13:34 < jtanx> not likely haha although there was something called ms project server which might allow collaboraitve stuff
13:34 < jtanx> you can get this all off msdnaa
13:34 < jtanx> but since noone's used it before it might be better to stick with excel
13:34 < sam_moore> Ok, let's just try and think what we need to get other teams to do, and what we need to do for other teams
13:35 < Callum> HAHAH
13:35 < sam_moore> Well
13:35 < Callum> Hello everyone,
13:35 < Callum> It appears that the lab signup sheets for GENG4402, the MECH/MCTX/Oil and Gas students have dissapeared from the desk at the stairwell.
13:35 < Callum> Can you please check if you have it and return it as soon as possible? Many students still need to sign up. I will then scan and put online once complete so that you can check when your lab is.
13:35 < Callum> PLEASE RETURN THE SHEETS.
13:35 < Callum> Thank you
13:35 < Callum> thats hilarious
13:35 < jtanx> ~~
13:36 < sam_moore> Oh dear
13:36 < sam_moore> It strikes me that something like a Makefile, except a bit more GUI, would be good for this
13:37 < jtanx> wait
13:37 < jtanx> you lost me there - what are you referring to
13:37 < Callum> ^
13:37 < sam_moore> To compile C projects that involve several files, you use something called "make"
13:37 < sam_moore> You write a Makefile for it
13:37 < jtanx> yah
13:38 < sam_moore> The Makefile has a list of targets and what they depend on
13:38 < sam_moore> And how to make them once their dependency exists
13:38 < jtanx> ok
13:38 < sam_moore> Then you run "make" and it reads the make file and magically compiles everything in the right order
13:38 < Callum> yea we get what make is
13:39 < sam_moore> Ok, I was referring to the list of tasks
13:39 < sam_moore> That depend on each other
13:39 < jtanx> ook
13:39 < jtanx> well
13:39 < sam_moore> It was a bad joke
13:39 < sam_moore> I am not seriously suggesting we use make to plan the project
13:40 < Callum> hahahah
13:40 < Callum> now that i would like to see :p
13:40 < jtanx> um just with git
13:40 < jtanx> i've never done pull requests before
13:40 < sam_moore> Neither had we until last week :P
13:41 < sam_moore> Basically you make your own fork of the repositoy, and there is a pull request button that lets you ask to have the changes merged back into the upstream repository
13:42 < jtanx> ahh
13:42 < jtanx> ok
13:51 < jtanx> well that was pretty straight forward - I understand it now
15:06 < sam_moore> I made a #mctxuwa channel for group representatives
15:06 < sam_moore> I don't know if people will use it, but at least it's an attempt at something
15:47 < Callum> tbh it makes more sense for us all to use one
15:47 < Callum> unless the one for everyone is actually used often enough to justify us having our own
16:11 < sam_moore> Yeah, there's nothing stopping people that aren't group representatives from joining it
16:11 < sam_moore> It will certainly make it easier if there are more people talking to other teams directly than just the representative
16:11 < sam_moore> We might still want our own for discussing the details of code
16:12 < sam_moore> Speaking of which, I'm currently tidying up the test webserver code I wrote
16:17 < sam_moore> Does: FunctionName, variable_name, Structure, Extern_FunctionName, g_global_variable seem suitable
16:19 < sam_moore> Well, unless anyone objects before I've satisfied my obsessive compulsive urges, that's what it will be
16:19 < sam_moore> Until then, it'll probably take a while, and find-replace is fast
16:20 < sam_moore> Other than that, the style of comments/documentation in the test webserver is what I'll keep using
16:22 < sam_moore> If someone wants to actually write code... it would be good to have a watchdog program that uses exec to start the main program and detects SIGCHLD when it crashes
16:22 < sam_moore> Then we can put some kind of emergency "Turn all the things off!" in that
16:57 < jtanx> what about something like this? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/696839/how-do-i-write-a-bash-script-to-restart-a-process-if-it-dies
16:58 < sam_moore> Oh cool, that looks good
17:03 < sam_moore> I'll be back later tonight, bye
17:21 < jtanx> umm
17:21 < jtanx> wow okay you're actually writing a webserver from the ground up?
17:22 < jtanx> what if you just had software that got the results and then wrote that to a html/php file
17:22 < jtanx> then you can just run nginx and serve it up
17:45 < jtanx> or what about if you ran an sql server, so you update the database from your program
17:46 < jtanx> then you can either use php to interface with the database
17:46 < jtanx> or you could make some sort of api and serve the data in json format
17:50 < jtanx> sqlite
19:12 < jtanx> you could do something like this: http://pastebin.com/mEdbu4jR
19:13 < jtanx> where instead of outputting html, you could make it output json, which is then interpreted by your actual webpage
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