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+--- Day changed Tue Sep 17 2013
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+15:34 < jtanx> to run the software not as root, we need to at least add it to the 'video' group so it can access the webcam
+15:34 < jtanx> not sure about the sensors
+15:34 < jtanx> eg sudo usermod -a -G video debian
+15:38 < sam_moore> Ah, cool
+15:39 < sam_moore> I think I worked out how to get around the camera crashing without killing the rest of the program, won't implement it for a while though
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+23:18 < Callum> hey
+23:23 < sam_moore> Hi
+23:24 < Callum> do you know how to do the second question of that assignment?
+23:24 < Callum> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B241H5liqVlnbHZETXRZX1Mwd1k/edit?usp=sharing
+23:25 < Callum> rather remember
+23:35 < sam_moore> Well, you can eliminate any epsilon^2 when you substitute those formulae for v into the formula for gamma
+23:35 < sam_moore> Then it has a really simple taylor expansion
+23:35 < Callum> i might have to hunt you down tomorrow to show me. or maybe il be able to think straight tomorrow.
+23:38 < sam_moore> You can express one of the epsilons in terms of the other one after that
+23:40 < sam_moore> I'm pretty busy tomorrow
+23:42 < Callum> mhmm. so no free time at all? coz im fairly free
+23:49 < sam_moore> Not from 8:00am until 5:00pm
+23:49 < Callum> ohwow. you are busy
+23:49 < Callum> im still unsure what im meant to be applyign the taylor expansion to
+23:53 < sam_moore> Substitute in the suggested formulae to gamma, simplify it, then apply a taylor expansion
+23:53 < sam_moore> Anyway, goodnight, good luck
+23:53 < Callum> night
+--- Day changed Wed Sep 18 2013
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+--- Day changed Thu Sep 19 2013
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+16:08 < jtanx> one thing I forgot to mention - the latest version on git uses syslog
+16:08 < jtanx> if you copy the config file (server-configs/rsyslog.d/* ??) to /etc/
+16:09 < jtanx> it will log to /var/log/mctx[something I can't remember].log
+16:10 < jtanx> i'm pretty sure you can also create a log file specifically for warning level and above (so it logs in three places, stderr, the normal log, and a special 'error' log), but I haven't set this up yet
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+18:17 < jtanx_> :0
+18:22 < sam_moore> ?
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+20:24 < jtanx> I got the camera image to be updated in javascript instead: http://mctx.us.to:8080/test/
+20:25 < jtanx> right now it's updated around every ~400ms because my webcam is running through a usb1.1 link which seriously limits how fast it can update
+20:36 < jtanx> (its running on a pentium 3 computer)
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+--- Day changed Fri Sep 20 2013
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+18:02 < jtanx> this seems like an interesting option, at least for the cam that just shows the can explode:http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/mjpg-streamer/index.php?title=Main_Page
+18:51 < sam_moore> Cool
+18:51 < sam_moore> It, ah
+18:52 < sam_moore> Looks like we might have to recompile the kernel to get PWM working
+18:52 < sam_moore> Hooray
+18:52 < sam_moore> Kernel compiling
+18:52 < sam_moore> What could possibly go wrong?
+19:02 < jtanx> really??
+19:02 < jtanx> why....
+19:03 < jtanx> no am33xx_pwm module?
+19:04 < sam_moore> Not that I can tell
+19:05 < jtanx> well crap
+19:06 < sam_moore> Well... surely I can find a precompiled kernel somewhere
+19:06 < jtanx> it seems that stuff for the BBB is at a really premature stage
+19:07 < sam_moore> Yeah, RPi is much nicer
+19:07 < jtanx> the BBB is just too new..
+19:07 < sam_moore> What's the point of having fancy things like ADC and PWM...
+19:07 < sam_moore> If you can't actually use them without jumping through hoops
+19:07 < jtanx> hahaha
+19:07 < jtanx> were you referencing this, when you said we might have to recompile the kernel? https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/wjbOVE6ItNg/AGYVRhYbTX8J
+19:08 < sam_moore> Yeah
+19:08 < sam_moore> ...
+19:08 < sam_moore> I wonder if I can take the kernel used by Angstrom and stick it in /boot
+19:08 < sam_moore> on the SD card
+19:09 < jtanx> ._.
+19:10 < jtanx> what about kernels from here
+19:10 < jtanx> http://rcn-ee.net/deb/precise-armhf/
+19:10 < jtanx> sorry
+19:10 < jtanx> http://rcn-ee.net/deb/wheezy-armhf/
+19:11 < jtanx> what's it currently running
+19:12 < sam_moore> 3.8.13-bone20
+19:13 < sam_moore> Try 3.8.13-bone28 ?
+19:15 < jtanx> what about v3.8.9-bone15
+19:15 < jtanx> oh wait
+19:15 < jtanx> ~.~
+19:15 < sam_moore> I wonder why the BBB developers didn't go with debian...
+19:15 < jtanx> v3.11.0-bone5
+19:15 < jtanx> yeah
+19:15 < jtanx> why angstrom, of all things
+19:15 < sam_moore> Is angstrom used anywhere else?
+19:16 < jtanx> dunno
+19:16 < sam_moore> Other embedded devices, heh
+19:16 < sam_moore> Everyone just has to use their own distro :P
+19:17 < sam_moore> I didn't see the .11 kernels, I'll try the latest one
+19:17 < jtanx> want to try the rc version? lol
+19:18 < jtanx> oh the rc versions are older than .11
+19:19 < jtanx> how does it work?
+19:19 < jtanx> do you just download from http://rcn-ee.net/deb/wheezy-armhf/v3.11.0-bone5/
+19:19 < jtanx> the .sh script and run it from the BBB?
+19:24 < sam_moore> I think so
+19:25 < sam_moore> Well... here goes nothing
+19:26 < sam_moore> Hopefully between 3.8 and 3.11 they actually enabled PWM by default...
+19:27 < sam_moore> It looks like install-me.sh downloads all the .deb files appropriately
+19:29 < sam_moore> It's creating files like: /lib/firmware/bone_pwm_P8_36-00
+19:29 < sam_moore> Which looks promising
+19:29 < sam_moore> Snoopy is not yet on fire
+19:29 < sam_moore> Which is promising
+19:29 < sam_moore> Rebooting and praying
+19:31 < sam_moore> And... it booted into 3.8.13-bone20 -_-
+19:31 < sam_moore> Tempted to just symlink that filename to the new kernel
+19:34 < sam_moore> The new kernel exists in /boot, but obviously there's some boot config that needs to get set
+19:39 < sam_moore> Ok, screw this, I'm making a symlink just to see if it works
+19:40 < jtanx> lol
+19:41 < jtanx> no grub
+19:43 < jtanx> did update-initramfs run?
+19:46 < jtanx> or maybe we need mkimage
+19:47 < jtanx> yeah probably need mkimage
+19:50 < sam_moore> Um, zImage is a symlink to the kernel
+19:50 < sam_moore> But regardless, the new one won't boot
+19:50 < sam_moore> Such a pain
+19:50 < sam_moore> I wonder if we can just toggle the GPIO pin fast enough to implement PWM
+19:56 < sam_moore> Using a decent oscilloscope, I read a 6us period when switching GPIO1_28 on/off as fast as possible
+19:59 < sam_moore> That
+19:59 < sam_moore> s like 166KHz
+19:59 < sam_moore> Heh
+19:59 < sam_moore> Maybe the sources you found were closing the file and reopening it?
+20:01 < sam_moore> Yeah, wow
+20:02 < sam_moore> Using fopen, fprintf and fclose each time takes the period to 224us
+20:02 < sam_moore> Or 4KHz
+20:03 < sam_moore> Also for future reference, that CRO in G19 is definitely broken; it's always a lovely square wave on the modern oscilloscope I'm testing with now
+20:12 < jtanx> haha ok
+20:13 < jtanx> but without kernel support your pwm signal won't be very accurate
+20:13 < sam_moore> Yeah, I suppose
+20:13 < jtanx> how come the new kernel won't boot?
+20:14 < sam_moore> No idea
+20:14 < jtanx> Hmm
+20:14 < jtanx> this lack of documentation on how you do such procedures is pretty crap
+20:15 < sam_moore> Yeah, kernel developers aren't great on documentation
+20:15 < jtanx> is the mkimage package present?
+20:15 < jtanx> if not, install it and try running the install-me script again
+20:16 < jtanx> from this: http://www.jeremycole.com/blog/2011/03/09/beagleboard-upgrading-from-debian-5-to-debian-6/
+20:16 < jtanx> it should be just running that install script and rebooting
+20:16 < sam_moore> Alright, uboot-mkimage I presume?
+20:16 < jtanx> i guess
+20:17 < jtanx> and update-initramfs?
+20:18 < jtanx> (just looking at what the install-me.sh script uses)
+20:18 < sam_moore> Oh, does the script not fail if packages it needs don't exist...
+20:18 < sam_moore> -_-
+20:19 < jtanx> a quick scan says nup
+20:24 < sam_moore> Already had initramfs-tools but not mkimage, so I'll try again
+20:27 < sam_moore> I should probably have focused on the ADC reading before PWM
+20:27 < sam_moore> We're definitely going to get asked about aliasing again
+20:28 < jtanx> urgh yeah
+20:28 < sam_moore> I don't have a signal generator here though
+20:28 < jtanx> this BBB has definitely not been designed with 'plug n play' in mind
+20:28 < sam_moore> Mmm
+20:29 < sam_moore> The Angstrom image would work for this stuff, but obviously has limitations in terms of the webserver stuff
+20:29 < sam_moore> But even with Angstrom you still have to go through a similar convoluted process to control pins
+20:30 < sam_moore> From what I can tell there are two ways to do it
+20:30 < sam_moore> SYSFS, which I can't find much documentation on
+20:30 < sam_moore> Which is the /sys/class/gpio/ stuff
+20:30 < sam_moore> Which actually seems more intuitive than the other way
+20:31 < sam_moore> That involves echoing a bunch of cruft to /sys/devices/cape-manager/slots/ or something similar
+20:31 < jtanx> hmm
+20:32 < sam_moore> There is a /sys/class/pwm
+20:32 < sam_moore> But unfortunately whatever you export it complains about
+20:32 < sam_moore> Probably because the kernel wasn't compiled with it enabled
+20:32 < jtanx> is this with the old kernel?
+20:32 < sam_moore> Yeah
+20:33 < sam_moore> Hangon, the new one's probably finished building by now
+20:34 < jtanx> we don't know if the new one has been compiled with pwm support though
+20:34 < sam_moore> Yeah
+20:36 < sam_moore> The diff between the config options for the kernels shows that the old one has a comment "CONFIG_EHRPWM_TEST is not set" and the newer one has no reference to it
+20:37 < sam_moore> ...
+20:37 < sam_moore> Someone at some point
+20:37 < sam_moore> Has realised that PWM was not enabled
+20:37 < sam_moore> And commented that it isn't enabled
+20:37 < sam_moore> WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY JUST ENABLE IT
+20:37 < jtanx> :P
+20:37 < sam_moore> Anyway it still booted off the old kernel
+20:37 < sam_moore> Dinner time
+20:38 < jtanx> ok
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+21:15 < sam_moore> http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black#BeagleBoneBlack-LinuxKernel
+21:15 < sam_moore> Looks promising
+21:16 < sam_moore> Hmm...
+21:17 < sam_moore> I'll try using 3.8 but building with the PWM
+21:18 < jtanx> building from source - fun fun :P
+21:19 < sam_moore> Well in theory I just change a config option
+21:19 < jtanx> yeah
+21:19 < sam_moore> When that doesn't work and I have to modify the source, that's when the fun begins
+21:19 < jtanx> let's just hope it works
+21:19 < sam_moore> Yeah, if it doesn't we're (beagle) boned
+21:19 < jtanx> oh while you're at it, figure out how to enable the ethernet-over-usb feature
+21:19 < sam_moore> Haha
+21:20 < jtanx> loljk
+21:25 < sam_moore> Hmmm... compiling a kernel is going to take a while
+21:26 < sam_moore> Ergh, why am I running it on this Pentium D
+21:30 < sam_moore> Hmmm, more troubling... why does a debian wheezy server have OpenSUSE sources in sources.list
+21:30 < sam_moore> Oh well, not my problem
+21:33 < jtanx> heh
+21:33 < sam_moore> How the hell are we going to explain this in the progress report...
+21:34 < sam_moore> Also, I didn't fully understand, why can't you use the same image for multiple BBB?
+21:34 < sam_moore> Are we going to have to do this all again for the other BBB?
+21:34 < sam_moore> Spike I mean
+21:37 < jtanx> no idea
+21:38 < jtanx> without some sort of debugging cable to see what happens when it boots, who knows
+21:38 < sam_moore> :S
+21:39 < sam_moore> I love how git gets to the head of the branch
+21:39 < sam_moore> By starting at the initial commit
+21:39 < sam_moore> And going through every commit and changing the file
+21:42 < sam_moore> It hasn't started building yet
+21:42 < sam_moore> And the way you customise the build...
+21:42 < sam_moore> Is to build it with the defaults, so that the options file exists, then change the options, then build it again -_-
+21:43 < jtanx> ಠ ಠ
+21:43 < sam_moore> Oh well, I have to go home, I'll try finish this tomorrow
+21:43 < sam_moore> Bye
+21:43 < jtanx> ok
+21:43 < jtanx> bye
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+11:23 < sam_moore> http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-pwm-on-beaglebone-with-device-tree-overlays/
+11:23 < sam_moore> So... according to this I should add pwm_test as a kernel module
+11:24 < sam_moore> "This is it. It is now three o’clock in the morning and I have not slept or eaten in two days. My neck is sore, my ass has fallen asleep and my organs are screaming “slow down, man”. I no longer see [CC]s, [LD]s and [AS]s, I only see blondes, brunettes and redheads flashing before my eyes. With my last ounce of energy I barely manage to type in “reboot” as my face hits the keyboard. And that is when it happens.."
+11:25 < sam_moore> Ummm
+11:25 < sam_moore> It's awesome that this guy has solved the problem (I think)
+11:26 < sam_moore> But a bit depressing that it still isn't in the official kernel
+11:29 < sam_moore> I think most people just give up and use Angstrom, which is tempting
+11:30 < sam_moore> I still have that HTTP server code... :P
+11:45 < sam_moore> Looks like Robert C Nelson's 3.8 kernel does have a pwm_test module
+11:45 < sam_moore> Maybe the image you used just had an out of date kernel?
+11:45 -!- Irssi: #mctxuwa_softdev: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
+11:51 < jtanx> hmm
+11:51 < jtanx> no idea
+11:51 < jtanx> it was made in july I think and it uses those rcn kernels
+11:51 < jtanx> We could always use lighttp
+11:51 < jtanx> lighttpd on angstrom if necessary
+11:52 < jtanx> lighttpd and install mod_fastcgi
+11:55 < jtanx> ok so the image uses 3.8.13-bone20, so maybe it wasn't enabled in that version, but it now is in 3.8.13-bone28?
+12:02 < sam_moore> I've just built 3.8.13-bone28 and the module pwm_test exists
+12:03 < sam_moore> ... I also copied the code from that guy's blog as pwm_test2 just in case :P
+12:03 < sam_moore> I'll have to test it later, but at least we have the kernel module
+12:08 < jtanx> nice
+12:39 < jtanx> ohhhhh I know why it didn't work from one bbb to the next, using the same image
+12:39 < jtanx> When you boot for the first time, it assigns the ethernet port eth0
+12:39 < jtanx> when you then take it out and boot it on a different BBB
+12:40 < jtanx> because the ethernet device has a different id, it gets assigned to say eth1
+12:40 < jtanx> and because you don't have any config for eth1 in your network config, there's no internet access
+12:40 < jtanx> http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone#BeagleBone-Networking:UsingasharedSDcardwithMultipleBeagleBone
+12:41 < jtanx> should fix that
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+15:10 < jtanx> Eh, you know what I'll just stop the threads when you want to pause it
+15:10 < jtanx> instead of conditionals
+15:11 < jtanx> it's not like you're pausing the experiment that often
+15:18 < sam_moore> That's fine
+15:19 < sam_moore> The conditional approach is only really necessary if you're constantly pausing the threads
+15:19 < sam_moore> I used it for an nbody simulator, so the computation of force and position was split up between threads
+15:19 < sam_moore> It's really slow if you have to stop and then recreate the threads on every step
+15:22 < sam_moore> Although still actually faster than the single threaded program
+15:22 < sam_moore> Well, depending on how many objects you simulated
+15:23 < sam_moore> Anyway, just stop the threads, it's simpler to code and the performance effect in our case is probably negligable
+15:30 < jtanx> yeah
+15:30 < jtanx> say you had an actuator that was being controlled at that instant when an 'emergency stop' was issued
+15:31 < jtanx> since an 'emergency stop' is the same as just pausing (eg stopping the thread but keep DataFile open)
+15:31 < jtanx> you'd have to wait for that action to be completed before the 'emergency stop' would be propagated
+15:34 < jtanx> welp I guess that's why there's hardware safety interlocks
+15:38 < jtanx> Also, technically wouldn't it be possible to try to set the actuator value before the current value has been set
+15:38 < jtanx> Since there's no queue
+15:39 < jtanx> a->control could be overwritten by a new request as Actuator_SetValue operates
+16:12 < sam_moore> We want that right?
+16:13 < sam_moore> I'll look at it later if I get time
+16:14 < jtanx> I don't know if we want that or not
+16:15 < jtanx> wait want as in the current behaviour or the behaviour with a queue?
+16:16 < sam_moore> The current behaviour
+16:16 < sam_moore> I don't think you need a queue
+16:16 < sam_moore> You can extend the critical section in Actuator_Loop to stop the current control getting overwritten
+16:17 < sam_moore> Move the pthread_mutex_unlock on line 121 to below line 127 (Actuator_SetValue)
+16:17 < sam_moore> That way if Actuator_SetControl is called before the value has been successfully set, it will just wait
+16:17 < sam_moore> Mutexes actually implement a queue
+16:18 < sam_moore> If one thread has a lock on the mutex, subsequent threads that try to access the mutex will queue up; whenever the mutex is unlocked the next thread (if any) which was waiting will get it
+16:18 < jtanx> ok
+16:23 < jtanx> I'll leave it as is for now
+16:23 < sam_moore> Sure
+16:49 < sam_moore> PWM working
+16:49 < jtanx> nice
+16:50 < jtanx> I still don't really understand - did you compile the kernel from scratch
+16:50 < jtanx> or did you figure out how to use the install-me.sh script
+16:50 < sam_moore> I did, but I didn't need to modify it
+16:50 < jtanx> huh
+16:50 < jtanx> ok
+16:51 < sam_moore> http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black#BeagleBoneBlack-LinuxKernel
+16:52 < jtanx> so if we do this: http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black#BeagleBoneBlack-Networking:UsingasharedSDcardwithMultipleBeagleBone
+16:52 < jtanx> We should be able to just copy our image
+16:52 < jtanx> and stick it on the electronics' BBB
+16:53 < sam_moore> Sounds good
+16:53 < sam_moore> I'm glad that worked
+16:53 < jtanx> yeah
+16:54 < jtanx> I wonder if it also enabled the usb0 stuff (ethernet over usb)
+16:58 < sam_moore> PWM appears to have picosecond resolution? Or at least the arguments are in ps
+17:02 < jtanx> oO
+17:11 < sam_moore> ADC can sample at ~4KHz
+17:11 < sam_moore> But... that's using bash
+17:11 < sam_moore> It will probably be massively fast when done in C
+17:11 < jtanx> um
+17:11 < jtanx> is there any need to have it sample at a consistent rate
+17:11 < jtanx> as in, with threads there's no guarantee
+17:12 < jtanx> of a consistent sampling rate
+17:12 < sam_moore> Yes, you're right
+17:13 < sam_moore> I don't think we can achieve a consistent sampling rate, but I don't think it's critical that we do
+17:14 < sam_moore> As soon as we make our software run in an operating system with a kernel and other processes that can run as well, it gets pretty unfeasable to have a constant sample rate
+17:14 < sam_moore> We can have it constant to within an uncertainty I guess
+17:15 < jtanx> yeah, true
+17:18 < sam_moore> If you wanted a really high constant sample rate (say much faster than 1us which is probably the best case we could get) you'd have to use a more low level embedded device
+17:18 < sam_moore> Well I guess you could compile your own kernel for the BBB
+17:19 < sam_moore> But either way you'd have to physically run the webserver/GUI interface stuff on a seperate device
+17:19 < sam_moore> At this stage my feeling is what we have is good enough given the complexity of all the requirements we were given
+17:23 < jtanx> yeah
+17:25 < sam_moore> Hmm, I can set some GPIO pins to toggle whenever Sensor_Read is called and get an idea of sample rates and to what degree of accuracy we can quote the time stamps
+17:26 < sam_moore> I think I'll write some pin control code
+17:26 < sam_moore> I don't trust any of these custom libraries
+17:29 < jtanx> custom libraries?
+17:36 < sam_moore> Well they aren't really libraries
+17:36 < sam_moore> http://www.avrfreaks.net/wiki/index.php/Documentation:Linux/GPIO#Example_of_GPIO_access_from_within_a_C_program
+17:37 < sam_moore> Eg: That one has an fopen and fclose each time the value is changed
+17:38 < sam_moore> I could google until I find someone that has already written a C library, but chances are it will be slow or broken
+17:38 < sam_moore> Since I've worked out how to control the pins I may as well just write the C code to do it
+17:39 < jtanx> yep
+17:49 < sam_moore> I wonder if I can do this with a macro...
+18:30 < sam_moore> Ergh, screw that
+18:31 < sam_moore> Ok, I'm going to implement things like: GPIO/ADC/PWM_Export/Unexport to initialise or deinitialise all pins
+18:31 < jtanx> Ok
+18:31 < jtanx> too much effort with macros?
+18:31 < sam_moore> Yeah, 
+18:32 < sam_moore> I was thinking of having something like "GPIOX_Set()" instead of GPIO_Set(int x)"
+18:32 < sam_moore> But that's probably not as nice as I thought it was
+18:32 < sam_moore> Anyway, there's an enum in the header file that contains the id of all pins used
+18:32 < sam_moore> The implementation defines some structs that wrap around the file descriptors
+18:33 < sam_moore> But to use the module you just give it an ID as defined in the enums
+18:33 < jtanx> Makes sense
+18:33 < jtanx> designing the gui is actually not too bad
+18:33 < sam_moore> That's good
+18:34 < jtanx> looks ok in ie8 too
+18:34 < sam_moore> Nice
+18:35 < jtanx> gotta go, dinner
+18:35 < sam_moore> Ok
+18:35 < sam_moore> Hmm, it would be nice if C had value checking on enums
+18:35 < sam_moore> You can define a function that takes an enum type as an argument
+18:36 < sam_moore> But people can still just pass any old integer
+18:36 < sam_moore> As far as I know
+18:36 < sam_moore> eg: typedef enum {FIRST=1, SECOND=10, THIRD=100} EnumType
+18:36 < sam_moore> void Foo(EnumType e);
+18:37 < sam_moore> If you go Foo(2) it won't complain
+18:38 < sam_moore> Annoying
+18:38 < sam_moore> That seems like something the compiler would be able to pick up
+19:31 < sam_moore> Ergh, I'm getting too obsessive compulsive with this pin thing
+19:35 < sam_moore> It's annoying because ADC, GPIO and PWM are treated completely differently
+19:35 < sam_moore> You write one thing and it enables *all* the ADCs
+19:35 < sam_moore> You have to enable each GPIO pin individually
+19:36 < sam_moore> And to enable PWM pins you give a string (not just an integer)
+19:37 < sam_moore> Also the location of the pin files is not guaranteed (though it probably doesn't change for a given system configuration)
+19:39 < sam_moore> Ah, I found a way to enable pwm with /sys/class/ instead of that cape manager thing
+19:39 < sam_moore> I think I'll use that, since at least it's consistent with the GPIO stuff
+19:41 < sam_moore> Ooh!
+19:41 < sam_moore> http://beagleboard-gsoc13.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/sampling-analogue-signals-using-adc-on.html
+19:41 < sam_moore> Provides a driver for continuously sampling with the ADC
+19:41 < sam_moore> Oh wait
+19:41 < sam_moore> Crap in a bucket
+19:42 < sam_moore> Because we're using those multiplexers we can't do that
+19:42 < sam_moore> We have to set the multiplexer before each sample
+19:42 < sam_moore> Oh well, never mind
+19:44 < sam_moore> I suppose we could write our own kernel module :S
+19:45 < sam_moore> I think I understand this enough to talk to Adam next time he tries to talk about sample rate
+19:46 < sam_moore> 1. It's not actually constant, but we can probably have it constant to within a few us
+19:46 < sam_moore> 2. To make it constant would require writing a kernel module
+19:47 < sam_moore> Unless electronics stops being stingy and gets one amplifier per channel :P
+20:22 < jtanx> hehehe
+20:22 < jtanx> next week's adrian though
+20:22 < sam_moore> Ah
+20:23 < jtanx> grilling time
+20:23 < sam_moore> He'll probably ask us the same things :P
+20:23 < jtanx> yeah
+20:23 < jtanx> but man, so much stuff to go through just to get some readings from a few pins
+20:24 < jtanx> so good job with that :P
+20:54 < sam_moore> Thanks
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+00:51 < sam_moore> Hell yes
+00:51 < sam_moore> PWM controlled through web browser
+00:51 < sam_moore> GPIO controlled through web browser
+01:19 < sam_moore> .... And ADC read through web browser
+01:19 < sam_moore> Blergh
+01:28 < sam_moore> I think I'll take the rest of today off from MCTX3420 :S
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+11:53 < sam_moore> I've analysed the crap out of sampling rates for this ADC
+11:53 < sam_moore> At least as much as I can just using the timestamps according to gettimeofday
+11:54 < sam_moore> Contrary to my first email, reading the ADC is actually really slow. And also probably the greatest source of variation in sampling rate.
+11:56 < jtanx> wow
+11:56 < jtanx> only 100Hz?
+11:56 < sam_moore> Well it looks more like 1KHz on the oscilloscope, but there's a lot of variation, it has trouble getting a trigger
+11:57 < jtanx> the cpu datasheet rates it at 200kSPS
+11:57 < sam_moore> Hmm
+11:58 < sam_moore> Well judging by the control it is something about the ADC reading that makes it really slow
+11:58 < jtanx> That's annoyng
+11:58 < sam_moore> Yeah
+11:58 < sam_moore> Also annoying is that the ADC file is generally in a different place each time they're enabled
+11:59 < sam_moore> I ended up modifying the program to take the path to the ADC file as an argument
+11:59 < sam_moore> And making run.sh do the initialisation
+11:59 < sam_moore> I figured that was better than calling system()
+11:59 < jtanx> that makes sense
+11:59 < sam_moore> Yep, we might want to set other options that run.sh can pass to it anyway
+12:00 < sam_moore> Ok, I have to stop now, I'm spending way to much time on this
+12:00 < jtanx> Haha
+12:00 < sam_moore> It's getting to the point where I'm considering writing an ADC kernel module that doesn't suck :S
+12:01 < jtanx> :S let's hope it doesn't get to that stage
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+20:12 < jtanx> the pressure regulator has a 1-5vdc analogue output
+20:12 < jtanx> is this considered one of the pressure sensors?
+20:14 < jtanx> or maybe it's just not used
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+14:18 < jtanx> with kernel 3.8 they decided to make life hard with device tree overlays
+14:19 < jtanx> http://e2e.ti.com/support/arm/sitara_arm/f/791/t/277811.aspx
+14:19 < jtanx> https://docs.google.com/a/beagleboard.org/document/d/17P54kZkZO_-JtTjrFuVz-Cp_RMMg7GB_8W9JK9sLKfA/pub
+14:47 < jtanx> huh
+14:47 < jtanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gv3gWtoBWQ
+14:47 < jtanx> http://digital-drive.com/?p=146
+15:39 < sam_moore> I wonder if I can write a module that just uses /dev/adcX /dev/gpioX and /dev/pwmX
+15:40 < jtanx> that would make life simple
+15:40 < jtanx> but no
+15:42 < sam_moore> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/lkmpg/2.6/html/x569.html
+15:42 < sam_moore> Probably out of date (2.6?)
+15:45 < sam_moore> Also rt.wiki.kernel.org - realtime linux supposedly gives you better timing accuracy, although it would possibly break with our setup involving nginx
+15:46 < sam_moore> Actually it looks like there are quite a few ways for it to not work
+15:48 < jtanx> I think trying to write a kernel module would cause more grief than it's worth
+15:50 < jtanx> http://saadahmad.ca/using-pwm-on-the-beaglebone-black/
+15:51 < jtanx> I have no idea what's been updated and what hasn't
+15:51 < jtanx> as in, do we have that fix in our kernel
+15:53 < sam_moore> I don't know
+15:54 < sam_moore> We only need 1 PWM though
+16:00 < sam_moore> Or at least, last we heard there was only one. Doesn't make the system very expandable though.
+19:07 < jtanx> you know what I'll try loading an Ubuntu image from rcn to my sd card
+19:08 < jtanx> instead of from armhf
+19:08 < jtanx> armhf.com*
+19:17 < jtanx> ah screw it
+19:17 < jtanx> i'll stick with debian (but do the same thing)
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+12:15 < jtanx> I think I know why we were having issues with pwm yesterday
+12:16 < jtanx> if you do this command
+12:16 < jtanx> echo bone_pwm_P8_13 > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.8/slots
+12:16 < jtanx> you make it unavailable from /sys/class/pwm
+12:16 < jtanx> so in the run.sh script it was exporting all the pwm devices via the first method
+12:16 < jtanx> and then it becomes unavailable via sysfs
+12:17 < jtanx> anyway... I tried booting from the rcn image
+12:17 < jtanx> it comes with pwm enabled already
+12:17 < jtanx> and via that capemgr I got pwm to work
+12:17 < jtanx> I don't know what /sys/class/pwm/pwm0 corresponds to (which pin)
+12:19 < jtanx> the electronics teams' bbb wasn't done properly when we tried to upgrade the kernel
+12:19 < jtanx> probably something to do with the device tree stuff
+12:19 < jtanx> so I flashed it with the rcn image (which runs 3.8.13-bone26
+12:20 < jtanx> (demo image from here)
+12:20 < jtanx> elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
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+13:16 < jtanx> oh
+13:16 < jtanx> so it now works
+13:16 < jtanx>  echo bone_pwm_P9_22 > slots
+13:16 < jtanx> if I do that line for pwm0
+13:26 < jtanx> oh right
+13:26 < jtanx> echo bone_pwm_P9_21 >slots 
+13:26 < jtanx> for pwm1
+13:30 < jtanx> ahhhhhh
+13:30 < jtanx> if you comment out the line
+13:30 < jtanx> modprobe pwm_test
+13:30 < jtanx> from run.sh
+13:30 < jtanx> it works
+13:43 < jtanx> geeze kernel 3.8 has issues with usb hotplugging 
+13:43 < jtanx> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/beagleboard/usb/beagleboard/8aalvyWwaig/MUXAPuMTSOYJ
+13:43 < jtanx> which explains why we're having issues with cameras
+13:43 < jtanx> (partly at least)
+13:47 < jtanx> and now pwms not working again
+13:48 < jtanx> via sysfs
+13:50 < jtanx> oh
+13:50 < jtanx> I know why
+13:51 < jtanx> you have to export it /sys/class/pwm
+13:51 < jtanx> first
+13:51 < jtanx> *before* you do stuff like 	echo bone_pwm_P9_21 >slots 
+13:52 < jtanx> yep 
+13:53 < jtanx> so the order is: echo 0/1 > /sys/class/pwm/export
+13:53 < jtanx> then do that other stuff
+13:57 < jtanx> egh
+13:57 < jtanx> finnicky
+13:57 < jtanx> ok I have to stop now
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+16:04 < jtanx> well that was an interesting experience
+16:04 < jtanx> it's most reliable when you work directly with /sys/devices/ocp2.helper/PWM9_22*
+16:05 < jtanx> I think if you echo am33xx_pwm to the slots thing when it's already loaded
+16:05 < jtanx> weird shit can happen
+16:05 < jtanx> too
+16:07 < jtanx> setting the period via sysfs (eg /sys/class/pwm) didn't work most of the time either
+16:07 < jtanx> you could change duty but not period
+16:07 < jtanx> although I swear I had it working at one point
+16:07 < jtanx> via the other way I think it works ok
+16:08 < jtanx> oh yeah, and I was doing this using the demo image from http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
+16:09 < jtanx> the electrical group's one has been reflashed with that version as well
+16:09 < jtanx> (for ours I worked off my sd card)
+16:10 < jtanx> that image also enables the ethernet-over-usb 
+16:36 < jtanx> I think we have to be careful which pins we export/enable
+16:37 < jtanx> https://github.com/CircuitCo/BeagleBone-Black/blob/master/BBB_SRM.pdf?raw=true
+16:37 < jtanx> pages 80-82
+16:37 < jtanx> the pins have different meanings based on what mode they're in
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+18:05 < jtanx> ...so I brought the BBB home, even though I should be studying for 2402 :S
+18:05 < jtanx> the microphone came in today too
+18:19 < jtanx> ok
+18:19 < jtanx> so these documents: https://github.com/derekmolloy/boneDeviceTree/tree/master/docs
+18:19 < jtanx> describes what the pins are  used for by default
+19:00 < sam_moore> Ah... they already got the microphone
+19:00 < sam_moore> Welp. Guess we're stuck with it.
+19:00 < sam_moore> So... we can record <50Hz sounds reliably, maybe
+19:00 < sam_moore> How useful
+19:01 < sam_moore> Have I been missing out on an email stream where the sensors team actually clears things with us?
+19:04 < jtanx> not that I know of
+19:04 < jtanx> haha
+19:04 < jtanx> in other news
+19:04 < jtanx> the sensors team ordered a pressure sensor with no mount
+19:04 < jtanx> adrian had a spat because it'd cost something like $200 to make the mount
+19:05 < jtanx> for a $10 part
+19:05 < jtanx> so he said, order it from online , I don't care if it's from overseas
+19:05 < sam_moore> Oh boy
+19:06 < sam_moore> If there's an issue with the camera and/or microphone they'll blame us
+19:06 < jtanx> yeah
+19:06 < jtanx> about that camera
+19:06 < sam_moore> Oh dear...
+19:06 < sam_moore> Go ahead?
+19:06 < jtanx> still couldn't get it to work today
+19:06 < sam_moore> God dammit
+19:06 < jtanx> although I didn't spend much time on it
+19:06 < jtanx> I got pwm to work
+19:06 < jtanx> mostly
+19:06 < sam_moore> I thought it might be something like adding the user to the "video" group
+19:06 < sam_moore> That's good!
+19:07 < sam_moore> What was happening?
+19:07 < jtanx> yeah, the problem is it doesn't show up at all (the camera)
+19:07 < sam_moore> Hmm
+19:07 < jtanx> and partly because 3.8 has an issue with usb hotplugging
+19:07 < sam_moore> Haha
+19:07 < jtanx> about pwm
+19:07 < jtanx> it seems that the sysfs method is not so reliable
+19:07 < jtanx> you can get it to work
+19:07 < jtanx> you have to export those first
+19:07 < jtanx> so echo 0 > /sys/class/pwm/export
+19:08 < jtanx> then (and only then)
+19:08 < jtanx> can you do
+19:08 < jtanx> that echo to the slots
+19:08 < jtanx> for those pins
+19:08 < jtanx> then it seems to be happy
+19:08 < jtanx> if you echo am33xx_pwm to the slots when it's already enabled
+19:08 < jtanx> that also screws things up
+19:08 < sam_moore> Ok
+19:09 < sam_moore> Thanks for working that out
+19:09 < jtanx> yeah
+19:09 < sam_moore> If you want to change from sysfs to the other method that's fine
+19:09 < sam_moore> But sysfs was much simpler to code
+19:09 < jtanx> should have spent that time studying for mech2402 though :P
+19:09 < sam_moore> Because you just sprintf an integer to the path
+19:09 < jtanx> yeah
+19:09 < jtanx> witht he other way it's all that dynamic path crap
+19:09 < sam_moore> Rather than keeping track of "bone_pwm_test_P9_22.15.arbitrary_string" crap
+19:09 < sam_moore> Exactly :P
+19:09 < jtanx> but
+19:10 < jtanx> you can enable pwm and analogue on boot
+19:10 < jtanx> if I can find the link
+19:10 < sam_moore> Sure, if that's easy
+19:10 < sam_moore> I figured if we put them in the /etc/init.d script that'd be fine too
+19:10 < sam_moore> Actually... maybe we should put it in the /etc/init.d script
+19:11 < jtanx> oh yeah
+19:11 < jtanx> and the demo image from that rcn image
+19:11 < sam_moore> Because if someone gets a different beaglebone then they'd have to reenable it on boot
+19:11 < jtanx> is better than screwing around with recompiling kernels
+19:11 < sam_moore> Can you give a link?
+19:11 < jtanx> I think it's the first image that you had originally
+19:11 < jtanx> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
+19:12 < jtanx> there's this script in /boot
+19:12 < sam_moore> Oh
+19:12 < jtanx> that allows you to copy the sd card to flash
+19:12 < jtanx> it also enables the usb over ethernet
+19:12 < sam_moore> Oh right, the image I downloaded before we used yours
+19:12 < sam_moore> Cool
+19:12 < jtanx> yeah
+19:12 < jtanx> I flashed electronics' one with that
+19:12 < sam_moore> Does PWM and stuff work on it?
+19:13 < jtanx> probably
+19:13 < jtanx> I was using the same image
+19:13 < jtanx> on ours
+19:13 < jtanx> you run this script and it copies exatly what's on the sd card to the internal flash
+19:13 < jtanx> resizes the partition as necessary
+19:13 < jtanx> http://digital-drive.com/?p=146
+19:13 < jtanx> that page shows how to enable on boot
+19:13 < jtanx> it's just a change to uEnv.txt in the boot partition
+19:18 < sam_moore> Good work
+19:19 < sam_moore> While I remember, for multiple logins and crap... can you just try to login as a local user account?
+19:19 < sam_moore> Then we could make a wrapper around adduser and deluser for the "administrator" account
+19:19 < jtanx> wow
+19:20 < jtanx> I don't know
+19:20 < sam_moore> I was just thinking
+19:20 < sam_moore> Linux has a user account system already
+19:20 < jtanx> yep, but is it a good idea to be making ~300 on a BBB?
+19:21 < sam_moore> Well... putting LDAP on the BBB probably won't be less intense
+19:21 < sam_moore> I know it's called "Lightweight"
+19:21 < sam_moore> But that's in comparison to "DAP"
+19:21 < jtanx> well to be perfectly honest, adrian is asking way too much
+19:21 < sam_moore> Which was designed in the 1980s by a telephone directory company and used the original OSI networking model
+19:21 < jtanx> you simply can't support a 300-odd user base on something like a BBB
+19:21 < sam_moore> Yeah
+19:22 < sam_moore> But maybe something like 30 users would work?
+19:22 < jtanx> yeah
+19:22 < jtanx> let's just keep it at that limit
+19:22 < sam_moore> Another thing regarding the crazy requirements...
+19:22 < sam_moore> If we have multiple Beaglebones running FastCGI
+19:23 < sam_moore> We can design our GUI so that it has links to the appropriate Beaglebone for each function
+19:23 < sam_moore> I don't think we actually need to do anything in nginx or the Beaglebone software
+19:24 < jtanx> hmm
+19:24 < sam_moore> At least in terms of displaying sensor data
+19:24 < sam_moore> For actuator control, we would need to introduce networking between individual beaglebones
+19:24 < jtanx> it actually depends on what he means by 'extensible' and/or distributed
+19:24 < jtanx> like
+19:24 < jtanx> you could say this BBB is for this experiement
+19:25 < jtanx> this other BBB is for this other experiment
+19:25 < sam_moore> But quite frankly you'd be mad to trust a distributed system with networking delays to coordinate control over hardware
+19:25 < jtanx> well yeah
+19:25 < sam_moore> Well at least something like this where we care about safety
+19:25 < sam_moore> But if you keep the actual control over hardware independent and on seperate devices
+19:25 < jtanx> but I mean
+19:26 < jtanx> wait 
+19:26 < jtanx> if we interpret it as meaning
+19:26 < jtanx> that each BBB runs an instance of the software
+19:26 < jtanx> then they would still be separate
+19:26 < jtanx> as in each BBB controls one 'experiment'
+19:26 < jtanx> you customise each BBB based on the experiment that needs to be done
+19:26 < sam_moore> Yes, that would work
+19:26 < sam_moore> Yep
+19:26 < jtanx> then there's no interaction between BBBS
+19:27 < jtanx> the only thing is you have some sort of control at the front
+19:27 < jtanx> that determines which BBB you connect to
+19:27 < sam_moore> Yes, if there's interaction between BBBs it gets problematic
+19:27 < jtanx> yeah
+19:27 < sam_moore> Yes, you have one BBB which gives the user the "main menu" part of the GUI
+19:27 < jtanx> I reckon that's a stupid requirement to ask
+19:27 < jtanx> yeah
+19:27 < sam_moore> Then the others just have customised GUIs or whatever
+19:28 < jtanx> once you have to get them to talk to each other, you're then having to try and invent a whole new protocol
+19:28 < jtanx> for that
+19:28 < sam_moore> Yeah, and it depends on exactly what the hardware is
+19:29 < sam_moore> You might be able to hack it onto the web protocol (eg: BeagleBone #1 sends http://beaglebone2/api/actuators?id=X?set=Y)
+19:29 < sam_moore> But... let's not think about that
+19:30 < sam_moore> It's clearly beyond the scope of this project
+19:31 < sam_moore> So, after all that, I reckon if we use snoopy for ADC/GPIO/PWM and spike for the dilatometer then that would be cool (probably not actually necessary though)
+19:31 < jtanx> yeah
+19:32 < sam_moore> The dilatomter... it's going to cause headaches if Kieren really wants to "return" an array of points
+19:33 < sam_moore> If the goal is to provide the user with a demonstration of what the dilatometer is doing, then you can just edit an image
+19:33 < sam_moore> If the goal is to provide more data... I don't see the point really
+19:34 < sam_moore> It's going to be the same sort of distribution every time
+19:34 < sam_moore> Realistically all anyone would do is average it
+19:34 < sam_moore> Maybe take a standard deviation
+19:36 < jtanx> I really don't know why a dilatometer's even needed
+19:36 < sam_moore> Educational reasons? :P
+19:37 < jtanx> haha sure
+19:37 < sam_moore> Anyway, hopefully Callum will deal with the dilatometer stuff
+19:37 < sam_moore> The interferometer code is a good starting point
+19:39 < jtanx> Yeah
+19:39 < jtanx> hopefully
+19:42 < sam_moore> We should arrange some meetings next week
+19:42 < sam_moore> Also I'd like to see more of the other group members committing to git and talking in this channel
+19:45 < sam_moore> People are missing a lot of design decisions here :S
+19:45 < jtanx> Yeah
+19:51 < jtanx> Ok
+19:51 < jtanx> so I made a LUT from pin number on the board to GPIO pin number
+19:52 < jtanx> so if you wanted to use P8_13
+19:52 < jtanx> you can use the lut to figure out what gpio number that corresponds to
+19:53 < jtanx> we should probably restrict which pins can be used
+19:53 < jtanx> because quite a few are reserved
+19:53 < sam_moore> Sure
+19:53 < sam_moore> Remove the #defines in bbb_pin_defines.h ?
+19:54 < sam_moore> Don't export those pins in pin_test.c
+19:54 < sam_moore> It is only really for testing anyway
+19:54 < jtanx> yeah
+19:55 < sam_moore> Although... I predict if we leave it in the software, *someone* at some point will try and control hardware directly through it :P
+19:55 < sam_moore> For all the educational stuff it's nice though
+19:56 < sam_moore> Oh, we could have an image of the pinout diagram
+19:56 < sam_moore> And when someone clicks on a part of the image they get to control that pin
+19:57 < sam_moore> Anyway... I really should study for MECH2402 or I will fail it
+19:57 < sam_moore> So bye
+19:57 < jtanx> yeah
+19:57 < jtanx> bye
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+17:52 < jtanx> http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/spruh73i/spruh73i.pdf p1986 (chapter 15) on pwm
+17:55 < jtanx> page 1996 on ePWM
+17:56 < jtanx> ahhhhh
+17:56 < jtanx> for ehrpwm0a/0b
+17:56 < jtanx> the frequency is linked
+18:08 < jtanx> ehrpwm is enhanced resolution pwm
+18:08 < jtanx> Implemented using the A signal path of PWM, that is, on the EPWMxA output. EPWMxB output has
+18:08 < jtanx> conventional PWM capabilities
+18:08 < jtanx> (p2053)
+19:06 < jtanx> if you want to make the pwm stuff not suck
+19:06 < jtanx> there's this file called pwm_test.c
+19:06 < jtanx> that's the driver
+19:59 < jtanx> for future ref: http://armsdr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/archlinux-on-beaglebone-and-linux-38.html
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+21:19 < jtanx_> urgh wow
+21:19 < jtanx_> ok, so I think pwm1/3/5 shouldn't be used to avoid period conflicts
+21:19 < jtanx_> (pwm0/1 is for channel A/B of one pwm device, 3/4 another, 5/6 another)
+21:20 < jtanx_> btw the correspondence between pwmX and pin number is:
+21:21 < jtanx_> P9_22, P9_21, P9_42. P9_14, P9_16, P8_19, P8_13, P9_28
+21:23 < jtanx_> pwm 2/7 correspond to eCAP devices
+21:24 < jtanx_> which I think are to capture PWM input
+21:24 < jtanx_> but they can also be used to generate PWM output, afaik
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+13:29 < jtanx> so, apparently if we don't order stuff that we need before the mid semester break (ie today), adrian just won't order it
+13:29 < jtanx> in other news, I think I've mostly sorted out pwm
+13:43 < jtanx> trying to standardise the pin code
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+20:10 < jtanx_> lol
+20:10 < jtanx_> we have a file authored '14 years ago'
+20:10 < jtanx_> in git
+20:10 < jtanx_> talk about commitment
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+21:47 < jtanx_> so on non-BBB platforms, I disabled the pin code
+21:47 < jtanx_> required some pretty dubious hacks to stop gcc from complaining
+21:48 < jtanx_> 1st attempt: define the functions to nothing
+21:48 < jtanx_> gcc complains about statements that do nothing
+21:48 < jtanx_> various combinations later on statements that do nothing, I move to making function stubs
+21:49 < jtanx_> shaft all the parameters to the stubs
+21:49 < jtanx_> to stop complaints about unused variables
+21:49 < jtanx_> (eg if you did int freq=1000; PWM_Set(...,freq) where the define for PWM_Set doesn't use freq
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