+--- Day changed Sun Sep 15 2013
+11:02 < sam_moore> I'm really glad I put the IRC logs under git
+11:02 < sam_moore> It's very helpful for keeping my diary up to date
+11:40 < jtanx> hehe
+11:40 < jtanx> I'm gladful for git
+11:48 < jtanx> about the bbb
+11:48 < jtanx> it's probably best to just install debian to the internal memory
+11:54 < jtanx> on the controls
+11:54 < jtanx> maybe we can have the following states: start/pause/resume/stop/close
+11:56 < jtanx> actually, maybe just start/pause/resume/close
+11:56 < jtanx> when an 'emergency stop' due to the sanity checks occurs
+11:57 < jtanx> actually, start/pause/resume/close/emergency
+11:57 < jtanx> start/pause/resume/close can only be initiated by the client
+11:58 < jtanx> emergency can be initiated by client/server
+11:58 < jtanx> in emergency, actuators are set as necessary then deactivated
+11:58 < jtanx> but importantly, the data files remain open, which hopefully removes the need for mutexes
+12:26 < sam_moore> That seems sensible
+13:20 < sam_moore> Hey
+13:20 < sam_moore> It's actually quite simple to stream an image through FastCGI
+13:21 < jtanx> yeah
+13:21 < jtanx> you just fwrite the image buffer
+13:21 < sam_moore> Yep
+13:21 < jtanx> I had some test code for that but could never test it
+13:22 < jtanx> no webcam
+13:22 < sam_moore> Ah, damn
+13:22 < sam_moore> I've written some code, it works pretty brilliantly
+13:22 < jtanx> nice
+13:22 < jtanx> this control code is really annoying me
+13:23 < jtanx> just all the considerations of if you need a mutex here or not and 'what happens if...'
+13:23 < sam_moore> Ah, sorry to hear that
+13:23 < jtanx> yeah nah its ok
+13:24 < jtanx> but that interferometer stuff you did looks really cool
+13:26 < sam_moore> Yeah, it worked surprisingly well
+13:26 < sam_moore> It can cope with a fair bit of background light, even without all the improvements I was thinking about
+13:27 < sam_moore> If I add 2 or 3 more columns to scan, and use the fact that we actually know the spatial frequency to eliminate nodes that are too close together
+13:27 < sam_moore> It should be pretty good
+13:27 < sam_moore> I'm not sure what the laser intensity will be, but the generated image looks similar to ones you can find on the internet
+13:28 < sam_moore> One possible problem is if the mirrors aren't flat enough
+13:28 < sam_moore> But hopefully it won't be a big issue (since they've pretty much just specified an expensive pre-built kit which presumably has flat mirrors)
+13:29 < jtanx> yeah
+13:30 < jtanx> here's to hoping 'it just works'
+13:30 < sam_moore> Yep :P
+13:31 < sam_moore> Got to go, bye
+13:32 < jtanx> ok cya
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+--- Day changed Mon Sep 16 2013
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+19:44 < jtanx> no mctxbot while I work on my f# project
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+--- Day changed Tue Sep 17 2013
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+15:34 < jtanx> to run the software not as root, we need to at least add it to the 'video' group so it can access the webcam
+15:34 < jtanx> not sure about the sensors
+15:34 < jtanx> eg sudo usermod -a -G video debian
+15:38 < sam_moore> Ah, cool
+15:39 < sam_moore> I think I worked out how to get around the camera crashing without killing the rest of the program, won't implement it for a while though
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+23:18 < Callum> hey
+23:23 < sam_moore> Hi
+23:24 < Callum> do you know how to do the second question of that assignment?
+23:24 < Callum> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B241H5liqVlnbHZETXRZX1Mwd1k/edit?usp=sharing
+23:25 < Callum> rather remember
+23:35 < sam_moore> Well, you can eliminate any epsilon^2 when you substitute those formulae for v into the formula for gamma
+23:35 < sam_moore> Then it has a really simple taylor expansion
+23:35 < Callum> i might have to hunt you down tomorrow to show me. or maybe il be able to think straight tomorrow.
+23:38 < sam_moore> You can express one of the epsilons in terms of the other one after that
+23:40 < sam_moore> I'm pretty busy tomorrow
+23:42 < Callum> mhmm. so no free time at all? coz im fairly free
+23:49 < sam_moore> Not from 8:00am until 5:00pm
+23:49 < Callum> ohwow. you are busy
+23:49 < Callum> im still unsure what im meant to be applyign the taylor expansion to
+23:53 < sam_moore> Substitute in the suggested formulae to gamma, simplify it, then apply a taylor expansion
+23:53 < sam_moore> Anyway, goodnight, good luck
+23:53 < Callum> night
+--- Day changed Wed Sep 18 2013
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+--- Day changed Thu Sep 19 2013
+16:08 < jtanx> one thing I forgot to mention - the latest version on git uses syslog
+16:08 < jtanx> if you copy the config file (server-configs/rsyslog.d/* ??) to /etc/
+16:09 < jtanx> it will log to /var/log/mctx[something I can't remember].log
+16:10 < jtanx> i'm pretty sure you can also create a log file specifically for warning level and above (so it logs in three places, stderr, the normal log, and a special 'error' log), but I haven't set this up yet
+18:17 < jtanx_> :0
+18:22 < sam_moore> ?
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+20:24 < jtanx> I got the camera image to be updated in javascript instead: http://mctx.us.to:8080/test/
+20:25 < jtanx> right now it's updated around every ~400ms because my webcam is running through a usb1.1 link which seriously limits how fast it can update
+20:36 < jtanx> (its running on a pentium 3 computer)
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+--- Day changed Fri Sep 20 2013
+18:02 < jtanx> this seems like an interesting option, at least for the cam that just shows the can explode:http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/mjpg-streamer/index.php?title=Main_Page
+18:51 < sam_moore> Cool
+18:51 < sam_moore> It, ah
+18:52 < sam_moore> Looks like we might have to recompile the kernel to get PWM working
+18:52 < sam_moore> Hooray
+18:52 < sam_moore> Kernel compiling
+18:52 < sam_moore> What could possibly go wrong?
+19:02 < jtanx> really??
+19:02 < jtanx> why....
+19:03 < jtanx> no am33xx_pwm module?
+19:04 < sam_moore> Not that I can tell
+19:05 < jtanx> well crap
+19:06 < sam_moore> Well... surely I can find a precompiled kernel somewhere
+19:06 < jtanx> it seems that stuff for the BBB is at a really premature stage
+19:07 < sam_moore> Yeah, RPi is much nicer
+19:07 < jtanx> the BBB is just too new..
+19:07 < sam_moore> What's the point of having fancy things like ADC and PWM...
+19:07 < sam_moore> If you can't actually use them without jumping through hoops
+19:07 < jtanx> hahaha
+19:07 < jtanx> were you referencing this, when you said we might have to recompile the kernel? https://groups.google.com/d/msg/beagleboard/wjbOVE6ItNg/AGYVRhYbTX8J
+19:08 < sam_moore> Yeah
+19:08 < sam_moore> ...
+19:08 < sam_moore> I wonder if I can take the kernel used by Angstrom and stick it in /boot
+19:08 < sam_moore> on the SD card
+19:09 < jtanx> ._.
+19:10 < jtanx> what about kernels from here
+19:10 < jtanx> http://rcn-ee.net/deb/precise-armhf/
+19:10 < jtanx> sorry
+19:10 < jtanx> http://rcn-ee.net/deb/wheezy-armhf/
+19:11 < jtanx> what's it currently running
+19:12 < sam_moore> 3.8.13-bone20
+19:13 < sam_moore> Try 3.8.13-bone28 ?
+19:15 < jtanx> what about v3.8.9-bone15
+19:15 < jtanx> oh wait
+19:15 < jtanx> ~.~
+19:15 < sam_moore> I wonder why the BBB developers didn't go with debian...
+19:15 < jtanx> v3.11.0-bone5
+19:15 < jtanx> yeah
+19:15 < jtanx> why angstrom, of all things
+19:15 < sam_moore> Is angstrom used anywhere else?
+19:16 < jtanx> dunno
+19:16 < sam_moore> Other embedded devices, heh
+19:16 < sam_moore> Everyone just has to use their own distro :P
+19:17 < sam_moore> I didn't see the .11 kernels, I'll try the latest one
+19:17 < jtanx> want to try the rc version? lol
+19:18 < jtanx> oh the rc versions are older than .11
+19:19 < jtanx> how does it work?
+19:19 < jtanx> do you just download from http://rcn-ee.net/deb/wheezy-armhf/v3.11.0-bone5/
+19:19 < jtanx> the .sh script and run it from the BBB?
+19:24 < sam_moore> I think so
+19:25 < sam_moore> Well... here goes nothing
+19:26 < sam_moore> Hopefully between 3.8 and 3.11 they actually enabled PWM by default...
+19:27 < sam_moore> It looks like install-me.sh downloads all the .deb files appropriately
+19:29 < sam_moore> It's creating files like: /lib/firmware/bone_pwm_P8_36-00
+19:29 < sam_moore> Which looks promising
+19:29 < sam_moore> Snoopy is not yet on fire
+19:29 < sam_moore> Which is promising
+19:29 < sam_moore> Rebooting and praying
+19:31 < sam_moore> And... it booted into 3.8.13-bone20 -_-
+19:31 < sam_moore> Tempted to just symlink that filename to the new kernel
+19:34 < sam_moore> The new kernel exists in /boot, but obviously there's some boot config that needs to get set
+19:39 < sam_moore> Ok, screw this, I'm making a symlink just to see if it works
+19:40 < jtanx> lol
+19:41 < jtanx> no grub
+19:43 < jtanx> did update-initramfs run?
+19:46 < jtanx> or maybe we need mkimage
+19:47 < jtanx> yeah probably need mkimage
+19:50 < sam_moore> Um, zImage is a symlink to the kernel
+19:50 < sam_moore> But regardless, the new one won't boot
+19:50 < sam_moore> Such a pain
+19:50 < sam_moore> I wonder if we can just toggle the GPIO pin fast enough to implement PWM
+19:56 < sam_moore> Using a decent oscilloscope, I read a 6us period when switching GPIO1_28 on/off as fast as possible
+19:59 < sam_moore> That
+19:59 < sam_moore> s like 166KHz
+19:59 < sam_moore> Heh
+19:59 < sam_moore> Maybe the sources you found were closing the file and reopening it?
+20:01 < sam_moore> Yeah, wow
+20:02 < sam_moore> Using fopen, fprintf and fclose each time takes the period to 224us
+20:02 < sam_moore> Or 4KHz
+20:03 < sam_moore> Also for future reference, that CRO in G19 is definitely broken; it's always a lovely square wave on the modern oscilloscope I'm testing with now
+20:12 < jtanx> haha ok
+20:13 < jtanx> but without kernel support your pwm signal won't be very accurate
+20:13 < sam_moore> Yeah, I suppose
+20:13 < jtanx> how come the new kernel won't boot?
+20:14 < sam_moore> No idea
+20:14 < jtanx> Hmm
+20:14 < jtanx> this lack of documentation on how you do such procedures is pretty crap
+20:15 < sam_moore> Yeah, kernel developers aren't great on documentation
+20:15 < jtanx> is the mkimage package present?
+20:15 < jtanx> if not, install it and try running the install-me script again
+20:16 < jtanx> from this: http://www.jeremycole.com/blog/2011/03/09/beagleboard-upgrading-from-debian-5-to-debian-6/
+20:16 < jtanx> it should be just running that install script and rebooting
+20:16 < sam_moore> Alright, uboot-mkimage I presume?
+20:16 < jtanx> i guess
+20:17 < jtanx> and update-initramfs?
+20:18 < jtanx> (just looking at what the install-me.sh script uses)
+20:18 < sam_moore> Oh, does the script not fail if packages it needs don't exist...
+20:18 < sam_moore> -_-
+20:19 < jtanx> a quick scan says nup
+20:24 < sam_moore> Already had initramfs-tools but not mkimage, so I'll try again
+20:27 < sam_moore> I should probably have focused on the ADC reading before PWM
+20:27 < sam_moore> We're definitely going to get asked about aliasing again
+20:28 < jtanx> urgh yeah
+20:28 < sam_moore> I don't have a signal generator here though
+20:28 < jtanx> this BBB has definitely not been designed with 'plug n play' in mind
+20:28 < sam_moore> Mmm
+20:29 < sam_moore> The Angstrom image would work for this stuff, but obviously has limitations in terms of the webserver stuff
+20:29 < sam_moore> But even with Angstrom you still have to go through a similar convoluted process to control pins
+20:30 < sam_moore> From what I can tell there are two ways to do it
+20:30 < sam_moore> SYSFS, which I can't find much documentation on
+20:30 < sam_moore> Which is the /sys/class/gpio/ stuff
+20:30 < sam_moore> Which actually seems more intuitive than the other way
+20:31 < sam_moore> That involves echoing a bunch of cruft to /sys/devices/cape-manager/slots/ or something similar
+20:31 < jtanx> hmm
+20:32 < sam_moore> There is a /sys/class/pwm
+20:32 < sam_moore> But unfortunately whatever you export it complains about
+20:32 < sam_moore> Probably because the kernel wasn't compiled with it enabled
+20:32 < jtanx> is this with the old kernel?
+20:32 < sam_moore> Yeah
+20:33 < sam_moore> Hangon, the new one's probably finished building by now
+20:34 < jtanx> we don't know if the new one has been compiled with pwm support though
+20:34 < sam_moore> Yeah
+20:36 < sam_moore> The diff between the config options for the kernels shows that the old one has a comment "CONFIG_EHRPWM_TEST is not set" and the newer one has no reference to it
+20:37 < sam_moore> ...
+20:37 < sam_moore> Someone at some point
+20:37 < sam_moore> Has realised that PWM was not enabled
+20:37 < sam_moore> And commented that it isn't enabled
+20:37 < sam_moore> WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY JUST ENABLE IT
+20:37 < jtanx> :P
+20:37 < sam_moore> Anyway it still booted off the old kernel
+20:37 < sam_moore> Dinner time
+20:38 < jtanx> ok
+21:15 < sam_moore> http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black#BeagleBoneBlack-LinuxKernel
+21:15 < sam_moore> Looks promising
+21:16 < sam_moore> Hmm...
+21:17 < sam_moore> I'll try using 3.8 but building with the PWM
+21:18 < jtanx> building from source - fun fun :P
+21:19 < sam_moore> Well in theory I just change a config option
+21:19 < jtanx> yeah
+21:19 < sam_moore> When that doesn't work and I have to modify the source, that's when the fun begins
+21:19 < jtanx> let's just hope it works
+21:19 < sam_moore> Yeah, if it doesn't we're (beagle) boned
+21:19 < jtanx> oh while you're at it, figure out how to enable the ethernet-over-usb feature
+21:19 < sam_moore> Haha
+21:20 < jtanx> loljk
+21:25 < sam_moore> Hmmm... compiling a kernel is going to take a while
+21:26 < sam_moore> Ergh, why am I running it on this Pentium D
+21:30 < sam_moore> Hmmm, more troubling... why does a debian wheezy server have OpenSUSE sources in sources.list
+21:30 < sam_moore> Oh well, not my problem
+21:33 < jtanx> heh
+21:33 < sam_moore> How the hell are we going to explain this in the progress report...
+21:34 < sam_moore> Also, I didn't fully understand, why can't you use the same image for multiple BBB?
+21:34 < sam_moore> Are we going to have to do this all again for the other BBB?
+21:34 < sam_moore> Spike I mean
+21:37 < jtanx> no idea
+21:38 < jtanx> without some sort of debugging cable to see what happens when it boots, who knows
+21:38 < sam_moore> :S
+21:39 < sam_moore> I love how git gets to the head of the branch
+21:39 < sam_moore> By starting at the initial commit
+21:39 < sam_moore> And going through every commit and changing the file
+21:42 < sam_moore> It hasn't started building yet
+21:42 < sam_moore> And the way you customise the build...
+21:42 < sam_moore> Is to build it with the defaults, so that the options file exists, then change the options, then build it again -_-
+21:43 < jtanx> ಠ ಠ
+21:43 < sam_moore> Oh well, I have to go home, I'll try finish this tomorrow
+21:43 < sam_moore> Bye
+21:43 < jtanx> ok
+21:43 < jtanx> bye
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+--- Day changed Sat Sep 21 2013
+11:23 < sam_moore> http://hipstercircuits.com/enable-pwm-on-beaglebone-with-device-tree-overlays/
+11:23 < sam_moore> So... according to this I should add pwm_test as a kernel module
+11:24 < sam_moore> "This is it. It is now three o’clock in the morning and I have not slept or eaten in two days. My neck is sore, my ass has fallen asleep and my organs are screaming “slow down, man”. I no longer see [CC]s, [LD]s and [AS]s, I only see blondes, brunettes and redheads flashing before my eyes. With my last ounce of energy I barely manage to type in “reboot” as my face hits the keyboard. And that is when it happens.."
+11:25 < sam_moore> Ummm
+11:25 < sam_moore> It's awesome that this guy has solved the problem (I think)
+11:26 < sam_moore> But a bit depressing that it still isn't in the official kernel
+11:29 < sam_moore> I think most people just give up and use Angstrom, which is tempting
+11:30 < sam_moore> I still have that HTTP server code... :P
+11:45 < sam_moore> Looks like Robert C Nelson's 3.8 kernel does have a pwm_test module
+11:45 < sam_moore> Maybe the image you used just had an out of date kernel?
+11:45 -!- Irssi: #mctxuwa_softdev: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
+11:51 < jtanx> hmm
+11:51 < jtanx> no idea
+11:51 < jtanx> it was made in july I think and it uses those rcn kernels
+11:51 < jtanx> We could always use lighttp
+11:51 < jtanx> lighttpd on angstrom if necessary
+11:52 < jtanx> lighttpd and install mod_fastcgi
+11:55 < jtanx> ok so the image uses 3.8.13-bone20, so maybe it wasn't enabled in that version, but it now is in 3.8.13-bone28?
+12:02 < sam_moore> I've just built 3.8.13-bone28 and the module pwm_test exists
+12:03 < sam_moore> ... I also copied the code from that guy's blog as pwm_test2 just in case :P
+12:03 < sam_moore> I'll have to test it later, but at least we have the kernel module
+12:08 < jtanx> nice
+12:39 < jtanx> ohhhhh I know why it didn't work from one bbb to the next, using the same image
+12:39 < jtanx> When you boot for the first time, it assigns the ethernet port eth0
+12:39 < jtanx> when you then take it out and boot it on a different BBB
+12:40 < jtanx> because the ethernet device has a different id, it gets assigned to say eth1
+12:40 < jtanx> and because you don't have any config for eth1 in your network config, there's no internet access
+12:40 < jtanx> http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone#BeagleBone-Networking:UsingasharedSDcardwithMultipleBeagleBone
+12:41 < jtanx> should fix that
+15:10 < jtanx> Eh, you know what I'll just stop the threads when you want to pause it
+15:10 < jtanx> instead of conditionals
+15:11 < jtanx> it's not like you're pausing the experiment that often
+15:18 < sam_moore> That's fine
+15:19 < sam_moore> The conditional approach is only really necessary if you're constantly pausing the threads
+15:19 < sam_moore> I used it for an nbody simulator, so the computation of force and position was split up between threads
+15:19 < sam_moore> It's really slow if you have to stop and then recreate the threads on every step
+15:22 < sam_moore> Although still actually faster than the single threaded program
+15:22 < sam_moore> Well, depending on how many objects you simulated
+15:23 < sam_moore> Anyway, just stop the threads, it's simpler to code and the performance effect in our case is probably negligable
+15:30 < jtanx> yeah
+15:30 < jtanx> say you had an actuator that was being controlled at that instant when an 'emergency stop' was issued
+15:31 < jtanx> since an 'emergency stop' is the same as just pausing (eg stopping the thread but keep DataFile open)
+15:31 < jtanx> you'd have to wait for that action to be completed before the 'emergency stop' would be propagated
+15:34 < jtanx> welp I guess that's why there's hardware safety interlocks
+15:38 < jtanx> Also, technically wouldn't it be possible to try to set the actuator value before the current value has been set
+15:38 < jtanx> Since there's no queue
+15:39 < jtanx> a->control could be overwritten by a new request as Actuator_SetValue operates
+16:12 < sam_moore> We want that right?
+16:13 < sam_moore> I'll look at it later if I get time
+16:14 < jtanx> I don't know if we want that or not
+16:15 < jtanx> wait want as in the current behaviour or the behaviour with a queue?
+16:16 < sam_moore> The current behaviour
+16:16 < sam_moore> I don't think you need a queue
+16:16 < sam_moore> You can extend the critical section in Actuator_Loop to stop the current control getting overwritten
+16:17 < sam_moore> Move the pthread_mutex_unlock on line 121 to below line 127 (Actuator_SetValue)
+16:17 < sam_moore> That way if Actuator_SetControl is called before the value has been successfully set, it will just wait
+16:17 < sam_moore> Mutexes actually implement a queue
+16:18 < sam_moore> If one thread has a lock on the mutex, subsequent threads that try to access the mutex will queue up; whenever the mutex is unlocked the next thread (if any) which was waiting will get it
+16:18 < jtanx> ok
+16:23 < jtanx> I'll leave it as is for now
+16:23 < sam_moore> Sure
+16:49 < sam_moore> PWM working
+16:49 < jtanx> nice
+16:50 < jtanx> I still don't really understand - did you compile the kernel from scratch
+16:50 < jtanx> or did you figure out how to use the install-me.sh script
+16:50 < sam_moore> I did, but I didn't need to modify it
+16:50 < jtanx> huh
+16:50 < jtanx> ok
+16:51 < sam_moore> http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black#BeagleBoneBlack-LinuxKernel
+16:52 < jtanx> so if we do this: http://www.eewiki.net/display/linuxonarm/BeagleBone+Black#BeagleBoneBlack-Networking:UsingasharedSDcardwithMultipleBeagleBone
+16:52 < jtanx> We should be able to just copy our image
+16:52 < jtanx> and stick it on the electronics' BBB
+16:53 < sam_moore> Sounds good
+16:53 < sam_moore> I'm glad that worked
+16:53 < jtanx> yeah
+16:54 < jtanx> I wonder if it also enabled the usb0 stuff (ethernet over usb)
+16:58 < sam_moore> PWM appears to have picosecond resolution? Or at least the arguments are in ps
+17:02 < jtanx> oO
+17:11 < sam_moore> ADC can sample at ~4KHz
+17:11 < sam_moore> But... that's using bash
+17:11 < sam_moore> It will probably be massively fast when done in C
+17:11 < jtanx> um
+17:11 < jtanx> is there any need to have it sample at a consistent rate
+17:11 < jtanx> as in, with threads there's no guarantee
+17:12 < jtanx> of a consistent sampling rate
+17:12 < sam_moore> Yes, you're right
+17:13 < sam_moore> I don't think we can achieve a consistent sampling rate, but I don't think it's critical that we do
+17:14 < sam_moore> As soon as we make our software run in an operating system with a kernel and other processes that can run as well, it gets pretty unfeasable to have a constant sample rate
+17:14 < sam_moore> We can have it constant to within an uncertainty I guess
+17:15 < jtanx> yeah, true
+17:18 < sam_moore> If you wanted a really high constant sample rate (say much faster than 1us which is probably the best case we could get) you'd have to use a more low level embedded device
+17:18 < sam_moore> Well I guess you could compile your own kernel for the BBB
+17:19 < sam_moore> But either way you'd have to physically run the webserver/GUI interface stuff on a seperate device
+17:19 < sam_moore> At this stage my feeling is what we have is good enough given the complexity of all the requirements we were given
+17:23 < jtanx> yeah
+17:25 < sam_moore> Hmm, I can set some GPIO pins to toggle whenever Sensor_Read is called and get an idea of sample rates and to what degree of accuracy we can quote the time stamps
+17:26 < sam_moore> I think I'll write some pin control code
+17:26 < sam_moore> I don't trust any of these custom libraries
+17:29 < jtanx> custom libraries?
+17:36 < sam_moore> Well they aren't really libraries
+17:36 < sam_moore> http://www.avrfreaks.net/wiki/index.php/Documentation:Linux/GPIO#Example_of_GPIO_access_from_within_a_C_program
+17:37 < sam_moore> Eg: That one has an fopen and fclose each time the value is changed
+17:38 < sam_moore> I could google until I find someone that has already written a C library, but chances are it will be slow or broken
+17:38 < sam_moore> Since I've worked out how to control the pins I may as well just write the C code to do it
+17:39 < jtanx> yep
+17:49 < sam_moore> I wonder if I can do this with a macro...
+18:30 < sam_moore> Ergh, screw that
+18:31 < sam_moore> Ok, I'm going to implement things like: GPIO/ADC/PWM_Export/Unexport to initialise or deinitialise all pins
+18:31 < jtanx> Ok
+18:31 < jtanx> too much effort with macros?
+18:31 < sam_moore> Yeah,
+18:32 < sam_moore> I was thinking of having something like "GPIOX_Set()" instead of GPIO_Set(int x)"
+18:32 < sam_moore> But that's probably not as nice as I thought it was
+18:32 < sam_moore> Anyway, there's an enum in the header file that contains the id of all pins used
+18:32 < sam_moore> The implementation defines some structs that wrap around the file descriptors
+18:33 < sam_moore> But to use the module you just give it an ID as defined in the enums
+18:33 < jtanx> Makes sense
+18:33 < jtanx> designing the gui is actually not too bad
+18:33 < sam_moore> That's good
+18:34 < jtanx> looks ok in ie8 too
+18:34 < sam_moore> Nice
+18:35 < jtanx> gotta go, dinner
+18:35 < sam_moore> Ok
+18:35 < sam_moore> Hmm, it would be nice if C had value checking on enums
+18:35 < sam_moore> You can define a function that takes an enum type as an argument
+18:36 < sam_moore> But people can still just pass any old integer
+18:36 < sam_moore> As far as I know
+18:36 < sam_moore> eg: typedef enum {FIRST=1, SECOND=10, THIRD=100} EnumType
+18:36 < sam_moore> void Foo(EnumType e);
+18:37 < sam_moore> If you go Foo(2) it won't complain
+18:38 < sam_moore> Annoying
+18:38 < sam_moore> That seems like something the compiler would be able to pick up
+19:31 < sam_moore> Ergh, I'm getting too obsessive compulsive with this pin thing
+19:35 < sam_moore> It's annoying because ADC, GPIO and PWM are treated completely differently
+19:35 < sam_moore> You write one thing and it enables *all* the ADCs
+19:35 < sam_moore> You have to enable each GPIO pin individually
+19:36 < sam_moore> And to enable PWM pins you give a string (not just an integer)
+19:37 < sam_moore> Also the location of the pin files is not guaranteed (though it probably doesn't change for a given system configuration)
+19:39 < sam_moore> Ah, I found a way to enable pwm with /sys/class/ instead of that cape manager thing
+19:39 < sam_moore> I think I'll use that, since at least it's consistent with the GPIO stuff
+19:41 < sam_moore> Ooh!
+19:41 < sam_moore> http://beagleboard-gsoc13.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/sampling-analogue-signals-using-adc-on.html
+19:41 < sam_moore> Provides a driver for continuously sampling with the ADC
+19:41 < sam_moore> Oh wait
+19:41 < sam_moore> Crap in a bucket
+19:42 < sam_moore> Because we're using those multiplexers we can't do that
+19:42 < sam_moore> We have to set the multiplexer before each sample
+19:42 < sam_moore> Oh well, never mind
+19:44 < sam_moore> I suppose we could write our own kernel module :S
+19:45 < sam_moore> I think I understand this enough to talk to Adam next time he tries to talk about sample rate
+19:46 < sam_moore> 1. It's not actually constant, but we can probably have it constant to within a few us
+19:46 < sam_moore> 2. To make it constant would require writing a kernel module
+19:47 < sam_moore> Unless electronics stops being stingy and gets one amplifier per channel :P
+20:22 < jtanx> hehehe
+20:22 < jtanx> next week's adrian though
+20:22 < sam_moore> Ah
+20:23 < jtanx> grilling time
+20:23 < sam_moore> He'll probably ask us the same things :P
+20:23 < jtanx> yeah
+20:23 < jtanx> but man, so much stuff to go through just to get some readings from a few pins
+20:24 < jtanx> so good job with that :P
+20:54 < sam_moore> Thanks
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+--- Day changed Sun Sep 22 2013
+00:51 < sam_moore> Hell yes
+00:51 < sam_moore> PWM controlled through web browser
+00:51 < sam_moore> GPIO controlled through web browser
+01:19 < sam_moore> .... And ADC read through web browser
+01:19 < sam_moore> Blergh
+01:28 < sam_moore> I think I'll take the rest of today off from MCTX3420 :S
+11:53 < sam_moore> I've analysed the crap out of sampling rates for this ADC
+11:53 < sam_moore> At least as much as I can just using the timestamps according to gettimeofday
+11:54 < sam_moore> Contrary to my first email, reading the ADC is actually really slow. And also probably the greatest source of variation in sampling rate.
+11:56 < jtanx> wow
+11:56 < jtanx> only 100Hz?
+11:56 < sam_moore> Well it looks more like 1KHz on the oscilloscope, but there's a lot of variation, it has trouble getting a trigger
+11:57 < jtanx> the cpu datasheet rates it at 200kSPS
+11:57 < sam_moore> Hmm
+11:58 < sam_moore> Well judging by the control it is something about the ADC reading that makes it really slow
+11:58 < jtanx> That's annoyng
+11:58 < sam_moore> Yeah
+11:58 < sam_moore> Also annoying is that the ADC file is generally in a different place each time they're enabled
+11:59 < sam_moore> I ended up modifying the program to take the path to the ADC file as an argument
+11:59 < sam_moore> And making run.sh do the initialisation
+11:59 < sam_moore> I figured that was better than calling system()
+11:59 < jtanx> that makes sense
+11:59 < sam_moore> Yep, we might want to set other options that run.sh can pass to it anyway
+12:00 < sam_moore> Ok, I have to stop now, I'm spending way to much time on this
+12:00 < jtanx> Haha
+12:00 < sam_moore> It's getting to the point where I'm considering writing an ADC kernel module that doesn't suck :S
+12:01 < jtanx> :S let's hope it doesn't get to that stage
+20:12 < jtanx> the pressure regulator has a 1-5vdc analogue output
+20:12 < jtanx> is this considered one of the pressure sensors?
+20:14 < jtanx> or maybe it's just not used
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+--- Day changed Mon Sep 23 2013
+08:51 -!- jtanx [
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+22:33 -!- Irssi: #mctxuwa_softdev: Total of 2 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
+--- Day changed Tue Sep 24 2013
+14:18 < jtanx> with kernel 3.8 they decided to make life hard with device tree overlays
+14:19 < jtanx> http://e2e.ti.com/support/arm/sitara_arm/f/791/t/277811.aspx
+14:19 < jtanx> https://docs.google.com/a/beagleboard.org/document/d/17P54kZkZO_-JtTjrFuVz-Cp_RMMg7GB_8W9JK9sLKfA/pub
+14:47 < jtanx> huh
+14:47 < jtanx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gv3gWtoBWQ
+14:47 < jtanx> http://digital-drive.com/?p=146
+15:39 < sam_moore> I wonder if I can write a module that just uses /dev/adcX /dev/gpioX and /dev/pwmX
+15:40 < jtanx> that would make life simple
+15:40 < jtanx> but no
+15:42 < sam_moore> http://www.tldp.org/LDP/lkmpg/2.6/html/x569.html
+15:42 < sam_moore> Probably out of date (2.6?)
+15:45 < sam_moore> Also rt.wiki.kernel.org - realtime linux supposedly gives you better timing accuracy, although it would possibly break with our setup involving nginx
+15:46 < sam_moore> Actually it looks like there are quite a few ways for it to not work
+15:48 < jtanx> I think trying to write a kernel module would cause more grief than it's worth
+15:50 < jtanx> http://saadahmad.ca/using-pwm-on-the-beaglebone-black/
+15:51 < jtanx> I have no idea what's been updated and what hasn't
+15:51 < jtanx> as in, do we have that fix in our kernel
+15:53 < sam_moore> I don't know
+15:54 < sam_moore> We only need 1 PWM though
+16:00 < sam_moore> Or at least, last we heard there was only one. Doesn't make the system very expandable though.
+19:07 < jtanx> you know what I'll try loading an Ubuntu image from rcn to my sd card
+19:08 < jtanx> instead of from armhf
+19:08 < jtanx> armhf.com*
+19:17 < jtanx> ah screw it
+19:17 < jtanx> i'll stick with debian (but do the same thing)
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+--- Day changed Wed Sep 25 2013
+12:15 < jtanx> I think I know why we were having issues with pwm yesterday
+12:16 < jtanx> if you do this command
+12:16 < jtanx> echo bone_pwm_P8_13 > /sys/devices/bone_capemgr.8/slots
+12:16 < jtanx> you make it unavailable from /sys/class/pwm
+12:16 < jtanx> so in the run.sh script it was exporting all the pwm devices via the first method
+12:16 < jtanx> and then it becomes unavailable via sysfs
+12:17 < jtanx> anyway... I tried booting from the rcn image
+12:17 < jtanx> it comes with pwm enabled already
+12:17 < jtanx> and via that capemgr I got pwm to work
+12:17 < jtanx> I don't know what /sys/class/pwm/pwm0 corresponds to (which pin)
+12:19 < jtanx> the electronics teams' bbb wasn't done properly when we tried to upgrade the kernel
+12:19 < jtanx> probably something to do with the device tree stuff
+12:19 < jtanx> so I flashed it with the rcn image (which runs 3.8.13-bone26
+12:20 < jtanx> (demo image from here)
+12:20 < jtanx> elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
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+13:16 < jtanx> oh
+13:16 < jtanx> so it now works
+13:16 < jtanx> echo bone_pwm_P9_22 > slots
+13:16 < jtanx> if I do that line for pwm0
+13:26 < jtanx> oh right
+13:26 < jtanx> echo bone_pwm_P9_21 >slots
+13:26 < jtanx> for pwm1
+13:30 < jtanx> ahhhhhh
+13:30 < jtanx> if you comment out the line
+13:30 < jtanx> modprobe pwm_test
+13:30 < jtanx> from run.sh
+13:30 < jtanx> it works
+13:43 < jtanx> geeze kernel 3.8 has issues with usb hotplugging
+13:43 < jtanx> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/beagleboard/usb/beagleboard/8aalvyWwaig/MUXAPuMTSOYJ
+13:43 < jtanx> which explains why we're having issues with cameras
+13:43 < jtanx> (partly at least)
+13:47 < jtanx> and now pwms not working again
+13:48 < jtanx> via sysfs
+13:50 < jtanx> oh
+13:50 < jtanx> I know why
+13:51 < jtanx> you have to export it /sys/class/pwm
+13:51 < jtanx> first
+13:51 < jtanx> *before* you do stuff like echo bone_pwm_P9_21 >slots
+13:52 < jtanx> yep
+13:53 < jtanx> so the order is: echo 0/1 > /sys/class/pwm/export
+13:53 < jtanx> then do that other stuff
+13:57 < jtanx> egh
+13:57 < jtanx> finnicky
+13:57 < jtanx> ok I have to stop now
+16:04 < jtanx> well that was an interesting experience
+16:04 < jtanx> it's most reliable when you work directly with /sys/devices/ocp2.helper/PWM9_22*
+16:05 < jtanx> I think if you echo am33xx_pwm to the slots thing when it's already loaded
+16:05 < jtanx> weird shit can happen
+16:05 < jtanx> too
+16:07 < jtanx> setting the period via sysfs (eg /sys/class/pwm) didn't work most of the time either
+16:07 < jtanx> you could change duty but not period
+16:07 < jtanx> although I swear I had it working at one point
+16:07 < jtanx> via the other way I think it works ok
+16:08 < jtanx> oh yeah, and I was doing this using the demo image from http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
+16:09 < jtanx> the electrical group's one has been reflashed with that version as well
+16:09 < jtanx> (for ours I worked off my sd card)
+16:10 < jtanx> that image also enables the ethernet-over-usb
+16:36 < jtanx> I think we have to be careful which pins we export/enable
+16:37 < jtanx> https://github.com/CircuitCo/BeagleBone-Black/blob/master/BBB_SRM.pdf?raw=true
+16:37 < jtanx> pages 80-82
+16:37 < jtanx> the pins have different meanings based on what mode they're in
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+18:05 < jtanx> ...so I brought the BBB home, even though I should be studying for 2402 :S
+18:05 < jtanx> the microphone came in today too
+18:19 < jtanx> ok
+18:19 < jtanx> so these documents: https://github.com/derekmolloy/boneDeviceTree/tree/master/docs
+18:19 < jtanx> describes what the pins are used for by default
+19:00 < sam_moore> Ah... they already got the microphone
+19:00 < sam_moore> Welp. Guess we're stuck with it.
+19:00 < sam_moore> So... we can record <50Hz sounds reliably, maybe
+19:00 < sam_moore> How useful
+19:01 < sam_moore> Have I been missing out on an email stream where the sensors team actually clears things with us?
+19:04 < jtanx> not that I know of
+19:04 < jtanx> haha
+19:04 < jtanx> in other news
+19:04 < jtanx> the sensors team ordered a pressure sensor with no mount
+19:04 < jtanx> adrian had a spat because it'd cost something like $200 to make the mount
+19:05 < jtanx> for a $10 part
+19:05 < jtanx> so he said, order it from online , I don't care if it's from overseas
+19:05 < sam_moore> Oh boy
+19:06 < sam_moore> If there's an issue with the camera and/or microphone they'll blame us
+19:06 < jtanx> yeah
+19:06 < jtanx> about that camera
+19:06 < sam_moore> Oh dear...
+19:06 < sam_moore> Go ahead?
+19:06 < jtanx> still couldn't get it to work today
+19:06 < sam_moore> God dammit
+19:06 < jtanx> although I didn't spend much time on it
+19:06 < jtanx> I got pwm to work
+19:06 < jtanx> mostly
+19:06 < sam_moore> I thought it might be something like adding the user to the "video" group
+19:06 < sam_moore> That's good!
+19:07 < sam_moore> What was happening?
+19:07 < jtanx> yeah, the problem is it doesn't show up at all (the camera)
+19:07 < sam_moore> Hmm
+19:07 < jtanx> and partly because 3.8 has an issue with usb hotplugging
+19:07 < sam_moore> Haha
+19:07 < jtanx> about pwm
+19:07 < jtanx> it seems that the sysfs method is not so reliable
+19:07 < jtanx> you can get it to work
+19:07 < jtanx> you have to export those first
+19:07 < jtanx> so echo 0 > /sys/class/pwm/export
+19:08 < jtanx> then (and only then)
+19:08 < jtanx> can you do
+19:08 < jtanx> that echo to the slots
+19:08 < jtanx> for those pins
+19:08 < jtanx> then it seems to be happy
+19:08 < jtanx> if you echo am33xx_pwm to the slots when it's already enabled
+19:08 < jtanx> that also screws things up
+19:08 < sam_moore> Ok
+19:09 < sam_moore> Thanks for working that out
+19:09 < jtanx> yeah
+19:09 < sam_moore> If you want to change from sysfs to the other method that's fine
+19:09 < sam_moore> But sysfs was much simpler to code
+19:09 < jtanx> should have spent that time studying for mech2402 though :P
+19:09 < sam_moore> Because you just sprintf an integer to the path
+19:09 < jtanx> yeah
+19:09 < jtanx> witht he other way it's all that dynamic path crap
+19:09 < sam_moore> Rather than keeping track of "bone_pwm_test_P9_22.15.arbitrary_string" crap
+19:09 < sam_moore> Exactly :P
+19:09 < jtanx> but
+19:10 < jtanx> you can enable pwm and analogue on boot
+19:10 < jtanx> if I can find the link
+19:10 < sam_moore> Sure, if that's easy
+19:10 < sam_moore> I figured if we put them in the /etc/init.d script that'd be fine too
+19:10 < sam_moore> Actually... maybe we should put it in the /etc/init.d script
+19:11 < jtanx> oh yeah
+19:11 < jtanx> and the demo image from that rcn image
+19:11 < sam_moore> Because if someone gets a different beaglebone then they'd have to reenable it on boot
+19:11 < jtanx> is better than screwing around with recompiling kernels
+19:11 < sam_moore> Can you give a link?
+19:11 < jtanx> I think it's the first image that you had originally
+19:11 < jtanx> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardDebian
+19:12 < jtanx> there's this script in /boot
+19:12 < sam_moore> Oh
+19:12 < jtanx> that allows you to copy the sd card to flash
+19:12 < jtanx> it also enables the usb over ethernet
+19:12 < sam_moore> Oh right, the image I downloaded before we used yours
+19:12 < sam_moore> Cool
+19:12 < jtanx> yeah
+19:12 < jtanx> I flashed electronics' one with that
+19:12 < sam_moore> Does PWM and stuff work on it?
+19:13 < jtanx> probably
+19:13 < jtanx> I was using the same image
+19:13 < jtanx> on ours
+19:13 < jtanx> you run this script and it copies exatly what's on the sd card to the internal flash
+19:13 < jtanx> resizes the partition as necessary
+19:13 < jtanx> http://digital-drive.com/?p=146
+19:13 < jtanx> that page shows how to enable on boot
+19:13 < jtanx> it's just a change to uEnv.txt in the boot partition
+19:18 < sam_moore> Good work
+19:19 < sam_moore> While I remember, for multiple logins and crap... can you just try to login as a local user account?
+19:19 < sam_moore> Then we could make a wrapper around adduser and deluser for the "administrator" account
+19:19 < jtanx> wow
+19:20 < jtanx> I don't know
+19:20 < sam_moore> I was just thinking
+19:20 < sam_moore> Linux has a user account system already
+19:20 < jtanx> yep, but is it a good idea to be making ~300 on a BBB?
+19:21 < sam_moore> Well... putting LDAP on the BBB probably won't be less intense
+19:21 < sam_moore> I know it's called "Lightweight"
+19:21 < sam_moore> But that's in comparison to "DAP"
+19:21 < jtanx> well to be perfectly honest, adrian is asking way too much
+19:21 < sam_moore> Which was designed in the 1980s by a telephone directory company and used the original OSI networking model
+19:21 < jtanx> you simply can't support a 300-odd user base on something like a BBB
+19:21 < sam_moore> Yeah
+19:22 < sam_moore> But maybe something like 30 users would work?
+19:22 < jtanx> yeah
+19:22 < jtanx> let's just keep it at that limit
+19:22 < sam_moore> Another thing regarding the crazy requirements...
+19:22 < sam_moore> If we have multiple Beaglebones running FastCGI
+19:23 < sam_moore> We can design our GUI so that it has links to the appropriate Beaglebone for each function
+19:23 < sam_moore> I don't think we actually need to do anything in nginx or the Beaglebone software
+19:24 < jtanx> hmm
+19:24 < sam_moore> At least in terms of displaying sensor data
+19:24 < sam_moore> For actuator control, we would need to introduce networking between individual beaglebones
+19:24 < jtanx> it actually depends on what he means by 'extensible' and/or distributed
+19:24 < jtanx> like
+19:24 < jtanx> you could say this BBB is for this experiement
+19:25 < jtanx> this other BBB is for this other experiment
+19:25 < sam_moore> But quite frankly you'd be mad to trust a distributed system with networking delays to coordinate control over hardware
+19:25 < jtanx> well yeah
+19:25 < sam_moore> Well at least something like this where we care about safety
+19:25 < sam_moore> But if you keep the actual control over hardware independent and on seperate devices
+19:25 < jtanx> but I mean
+19:26 < jtanx> wait
+19:26 < jtanx> if we interpret it as meaning
+19:26 < jtanx> that each BBB runs an instance of the software
+19:26 < jtanx> then they would still be separate
+19:26 < jtanx> as in each BBB controls one 'experiment'
+19:26 < jtanx> you customise each BBB based on the experiment that needs to be done
+19:26 < sam_moore> Yes, that would work
+19:26 < sam_moore> Yep
+19:26 < jtanx> then there's no interaction between BBBS
+19:27 < jtanx> the only thing is you have some sort of control at the front
+19:27 < jtanx> that determines which BBB you connect to
+19:27 < sam_moore> Yes, if there's interaction between BBBs it gets problematic
+19:27 < jtanx> yeah
+19:27 < sam_moore> Yes, you have one BBB which gives the user the "main menu" part of the GUI
+19:27 < jtanx> I reckon that's a stupid requirement to ask
+19:27 < jtanx> yeah
+19:27 < sam_moore> Then the others just have customised GUIs or whatever
+19:28 < jtanx> once you have to get them to talk to each other, you're then having to try and invent a whole new protocol
+19:28 < jtanx> for that
+19:28 < sam_moore> Yeah, and it depends on exactly what the hardware is
+19:29 < sam_moore> You might be able to hack it onto the web protocol (eg: BeagleBone #1 sends http://beaglebone2/api/actuators?id=X?set=Y)
+19:29 < sam_moore> But... let's not think about that
+19:30 < sam_moore> It's clearly beyond the scope of this project
+19:31 < sam_moore> So, after all that, I reckon if we use snoopy for ADC/GPIO/PWM and spike for the dilatometer then that would be cool (probably not actually necessary though)
+19:31 < jtanx> yeah
+19:32 < sam_moore> The dilatomter... it's going to cause headaches if Kieren really wants to "return" an array of points
+19:33 < sam_moore> If the goal is to provide the user with a demonstration of what the dilatometer is doing, then you can just edit an image
+19:33 < sam_moore> If the goal is to provide more data... I don't see the point really
+19:34 < sam_moore> It's going to be the same sort of distribution every time
+19:34 < sam_moore> Realistically all anyone would do is average it
+19:34 < sam_moore> Maybe take a standard deviation
+19:36 < jtanx> I really don't know why a dilatometer's even needed
+19:36 < sam_moore> Educational reasons? :P
+19:37 < jtanx> haha sure
+19:37 < sam_moore> Anyway, hopefully Callum will deal with the dilatometer stuff
+19:37 < sam_moore> The interferometer code is a good starting point
+19:39 < jtanx> Yeah
+19:39 < jtanx> hopefully
+19:42 < sam_moore> We should arrange some meetings next week
+19:42 < sam_moore> Also I'd like to see more of the other group members committing to git and talking in this channel
+19:45 < sam_moore> People are missing a lot of design decisions here :S
+19:45 < jtanx> Yeah
+19:51 < jtanx> Ok
+19:51 < jtanx> so I made a LUT from pin number on the board to GPIO pin number
+19:52 < jtanx> so if you wanted to use P8_13
+19:52 < jtanx> you can use the lut to figure out what gpio number that corresponds to
+19:53 < jtanx> we should probably restrict which pins can be used
+19:53 < jtanx> because quite a few are reserved
+19:53 < sam_moore> Sure
+19:53 < sam_moore> Remove the #defines in bbb_pin_defines.h ?
+19:54 < sam_moore> Don't export those pins in pin_test.c
+19:54 < sam_moore> It is only really for testing anyway
+19:54 < jtanx> yeah
+19:55 < sam_moore> Although... I predict if we leave it in the software, *someone* at some point will try and control hardware directly through it :P
+19:55 < sam_moore> For all the educational stuff it's nice though
+19:56 < sam_moore> Oh, we could have an image of the pinout diagram
+19:56 < sam_moore> And when someone clicks on a part of the image they get to control that pin
+19:57 < sam_moore> Anyway... I really should study for MECH2402 or I will fail it
+19:57 < sam_moore> So bye
+19:57 < jtanx> yeah
+19:57 < jtanx> bye
+20:50 -!- jtanx [
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+--- Day changed Thu Sep 26 2013
+17:52 < jtanx> http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/spruh73i/spruh73i.pdf p1986 (chapter 15) on pwm
+17:55 < jtanx> page 1996 on ePWM
+17:56 < jtanx> ahhhhh
+17:56 < jtanx> for ehrpwm0a/0b
+17:56 < jtanx> the frequency is linked
+18:08 < jtanx> ehrpwm is enhanced resolution pwm
+18:08 < jtanx> Implemented using the A signal path of PWM, that is, on the EPWMxA output. EPWMxB output has
+18:08 < jtanx> conventional PWM capabilities
+18:08 < jtanx> (p2053)
+19:06 < jtanx> if you want to make the pwm stuff not suck
+19:06 < jtanx> there's this file called pwm_test.c
+19:06 < jtanx> that's the driver
+19:59 < jtanx> for future ref: http://armsdr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/archlinux-on-beaglebone-and-linux-38.html
+21:19 < jtanx_> urgh wow
+21:19 < jtanx_> ok, so I think pwm1/3/5 shouldn't be used to avoid period conflicts
+21:19 < jtanx_> (pwm0/1 is for channel A/B of one pwm device, 3/4 another, 5/6 another)
+21:20 < jtanx_> btw the correspondence between pwmX and pin number is:
+21:21 < jtanx_> P9_22, P9_21, P9_42. P9_14, P9_16, P8_19, P8_13, P9_28
+21:23 < jtanx_> pwm 2/7 correspond to eCAP devices
+21:24 < jtanx_> which I think are to capture PWM input
+21:24 < jtanx_> but they can also be used to generate PWM output, afaik
+23:08 -!- jtanx_ [
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+--- Day changed Fri Sep 27 2013
+13:29 < jtanx> so, apparently if we don't order stuff that we need before the mid semester break (ie today), adrian just won't order it
+13:29 < jtanx> in other news, I think I've mostly sorted out pwm
+13:43 < jtanx> trying to standardise the pin code
+20:10 < jtanx_> lol
+20:10 < jtanx_> we have a file authored '14 years ago'
+20:10 < jtanx_> in git
+20:10 < jtanx_> talk about commitment
+21:47 < jtanx_> so on non-BBB platforms, I disabled the pin code
+21:47 < jtanx_> required some pretty dubious hacks to stop gcc from complaining
+21:48 < jtanx_> 1st attempt: define the functions to nothing
+21:48 < jtanx_> gcc complains about statements that do nothing
+21:48 < jtanx_> various combinations later on statements that do nothing, I move to making function stubs
+21:49 < jtanx_> shaft all the parameters to the stubs
+21:49 < jtanx_> to stop complaints about unused variables
+21:49 < jtanx_> (eg if you did int freq=1000; PWM_Set(...,freq) where the define for PWM_Set doesn't use freq
+23:12 -!- jtanx [
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+--- Day changed Sat Sep 28 2013
+--- Log closed Sat Sep 28 12:20:39 2013
+--- Log opened Sat Sep 28 12:26:58 2013
+12:26 -!- Irssi: #mctxuwa_softdev: Total of 3 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
+12:27 -!- Irssi: Join to #mctxuwa_softdev was synced in 9 secs
+21:36 -!- jtanx [
[email protected]] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]"]
+--- Log closed Sun Sep 29 08:28:33 2013
+--- Log opened Sun Sep 29 08:31:40 2013
+08:31 -!- Irssi: #mctxuwa_softdev: Total of 1 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
+08:31 -!- Irssi: Join to #mctxuwa_softdev was synced in 2 secs
+08:31 -!- Irssi: #mctxuwa_softdev: Total of 1 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal]
+08:31 -!- You're now known as sam_moore
+15:27 < Rowan> hey jeremy, did you upload the updated gui onto a github? i cant find it anywhere ??
+15:32 < sam_moore> Hi Rowan, I think it's in a few subdirectories
+15:33 < sam_moore> Ah, it's under "testing/MCTXWeb"
+15:33 < sam_moore> https://github.com/szmoore/MCTX3420/tree/master/testing/MCTXWeb/public_html
+15:37 < Rowan> thats the most uptodate version?
+15:39 < jtanx> um
+15:39 < jtanx> maybe
+15:39 < jtanx> I'll update with what I've got now
+15:42 < jtanx> ok
+15:42 < jtanx> updated
+15:42 < jtanx> pintest stuff still not complete
+15:42 < Rowan> are you guys busy?
+15:42 < Rowan> (will you be on here long?
+15:42 < jtanx> right now I'm working on that pintest page
+15:42 < jtanx> I'm here
+15:43 < Rowan> in g19?
+15:43 < jtanx> no
+15:43 < jtanx> I'm at home
+15:43 < Rowan> okay
+15:43 < sam_moore> jtanx: As in, the pin control code isn't working? I didn't think I screwed it up that badly?
+15:43 < jtanx> nah
+15:43 < jtanx> the pin control web page
+15:43 < sam_moore> Oh, nice
+15:43 < jtanx> just thought it'd be easier to have a webpage to control stff
+15:43 < sam_moore> Yes
+15:43 < jtanx> especially for electronics
+15:43 < sam_moore> Yes, definitely
+15:44 < Rowan> are we going to make the gui UWA based or make it our own ?
+15:44 < Rowan> adrian made it sound like he wanted it UWA based with the logo and stuff
+15:44 < jtanx> we probably have to add uwa logo
+15:44 < sam_moore> We should probably put the UWA logo on it
+15:44 < sam_moore> Yes
+15:45 < Rowan> so make it similar to the main UWA page or make it similar to LMS?
+15:46 < Rowan> does anyone know if IT are in this week?
+15:46 < jtanx> we need to make it Colourful
+15:47 < jtanx> I don't think it needs to be exactly like UWA page or LMS
+15:47 < jtanx> just something similar would be good
+15:47 < sam_moore> I think LMS is probably a bad example, lots of people hate it
+15:48 < jtanx> haha
+15:48 < jtanx> I think LMS is fine, although there seems to be alot of problems with it on the backend
+15:48 < Rowan> yeah but adrian loves it
+15:48 < Rowan> keeting uses it for all 5 units hes teaching
+15:49 < Rowan> has anyone heard from james about the gui, i think he uploaded something to dropbox
+15:49 < jtanx> really
+15:49 < jtanx> I haven't checked db
+15:49 < jtanx> why's he not using git
+15:50 < Rowan> i dont know. has he uploaded anything to it/
+15:50 < Rowan> he might be.
+15:50 < Rowan> sometime last week he said he made up a gui todo list type thing but i dont know where he put it
+15:50 < sam_moore> It doesn't look like there is anything in dropbox
+15:50 < jtanx> right
+15:51 < Rowan> im trying to get in contact with him but i might just move on. so we want something somewhat related to lms?
+15:51 < Rowan> or no?
+15:52 < sam_moore> I think so, although it primarily needs to be able to control experiments
+15:52 < sam_moore> For the educational stuff, you could use a wiki style
+15:53 < sam_moore> https://github.com/szmoore/MCTX3420/wiki
+15:54 < Rowan> wiki isnt graphical enough
+15:54 < sam_moore> Yeah, probably
+15:54 < Rowan> its hard to say what adrian wants....
+15:54 < sam_moore> It looks like James has committed something to his own fork of the repository
+15:55 < jtanx> ok
+15:55 < sam_moore> https://github.com/firefields/MCTX3420/commit/e6a8120fdf1cef6d73421bd2b1edb1c45a6f3960
+15:55 < sam_moore> I can pull that into the main fork
+15:55 < sam_moore> Hopefully
+15:55 < jtanx> I think that may actually be
+15:56 < jtanx> sorry
+15:56 < jtanx> my computer decided to freeze at that instant
+15:57 < jtanx> but yeah that's the stuff
+15:57 < jtanx> he worked on
+15:57 < sam_moore> Oh wow... there are a *lot* of files
+15:57 < jtanx> before mine
+15:57 < jtanx> it's all the jquery ui stuff
+15:57 < sam_moore> jquery-ui
+15:57 < sam_moore> Yes
+15:57 < jtanx> wich I told him to get rid off
+15:57 < sam_moore> Dammit I just merged it :S
+15:57 < jtanx> but yeah, he hasn't committed anything since
+15:58 < jtanx> (that commit was done with me at the last meeting)
+15:58 < Rowan> so are we deciding on jeremys version it seems alot more complete
+15:59 < sam_moore> Yes, stick with Jeremy's and build on it
+15:59 < Rowan> sweet :)
+16:46 < Rowan> what was the password and username ?
+16:48 < jtanx> there's none
+16:48 < jtanx> if you haven't set up the htpasswd thing
+16:48 < jtanx> (ie it doesn't work)
+16:48 < jtanx> still not sure how to implement it either
+16:48 < jtanx> now that adrian wants it scalable to '300 students'
+16:53 < jtanx> I need another network switch...
+16:53 < Rowan> okay.
+16:53 < Rowan> i might make up a cover page, which links to the one we have after you log in
+16:54 < Rowan> like this but simpler: http://www.futureeffect.com.au/
+16:54 < Rowan> with a scrolling picture thing and stuff
+16:55 < MctxBot> I live again...
+16:55 < Rowan> whos mctxbot again?
+16:56 < jtanx> :P
+16:56 < jtanx> It does nothing
+16:56 < Rowan> its a cover page
+16:56 < Rowan> its what adrian said
+16:56 < jtanx> It connects whenever mctx.us.to is running
+16:57 < Rowan> what what
+16:57 < Rowan> ?
+16:58 -!- MctxBot changed the topic of #mctxuwa_softdev to: MCTX3420 - Software and co.
+16:59 < jtanx> mctxbot is no one, it's the server I operate
+17:02 < Rowan> hahahahah
+17:02 < Rowan> oh.
+17:03 < Rowan> ive put the uwa logo onto the gui
+17:09 < sam_moore> I'm looking at the login stuff
+17:10 < sam_moore> So... we probably don't want to use shell accounts, since once you have shell access you can do all sorts of things that are completely unrelated to this educational stuff
+17:10 < Rowan> could someone check ive forked it right
+17:10 < sam_moore> I think storing our own file in the same format as /etc/shadow is probably ok
+17:11 < Rowan> the gui.html & style.css
+17:12 < sam_moore> It looks like you've made a new branch for each of the files?
+17:12 < Rowan> i think so
+17:12 < Rowan> do you need to update the main file and i request it to you
+17:13 < Rowan> just so everything is uptodate and and organised
+17:13 < sam_moore> You submitted a pull request, that's fine
+17:13 < sam_moore> Yep
+17:13 < Rowan> both html and css files
+17:13 < sam_moore> You should probably keep edits in the "master" branch, or at least don't make a seperate branch for each file
+17:14 < sam_moore> (That way you only have to do one pull request for all of them, not one per file)
+17:14 < Rowan> how do i do that :|
+17:14 < sam_moore> Are you using a GUI or the command line?
+17:15 < Rowan> gui
+17:15 < jtanx> I think you were working on an old version
+17:15 < jtanx> before I pushed the new one
+17:15 < sam_moore> Hmm
+17:15 < jtanx> so some stuff got deleted
+17:15 < Rowan> S***
+17:15 < jtanx> https://github.com/szmoore/MCTX3420/commit/f43006da69d629d0c5421506c8a56d517b94924e
+17:15 < jtanx> it's ok
+17:16 < sam_moore> jtanx: It should have complained if there was a conflict?
+17:16 < jtanx> I dunno
+17:16 < Rowan> i only added 1 line to the css file anyways
+17:16 < jtanx> yeah
+17:16 < jtanx> so the form.controls, div.centre .bold etc
+17:16 < jtanx> stuff was added later
+17:18 < Rowan> when im home ill try put a cover page with pictures and the login page on it and link the login page to the gui we have atm.
+17:18 < Rowan> any constructive critism ?
+17:19 < Rowan> also ill try be on irc for the rest of the sem to keep up todate with you guys :)
+17:21 < sam_moore> The future effect looks cool
+17:21 < sam_moore> I guess we need to pick some relevant images though
+17:21 < Rowan> yeah ill talk to some other teams and see if they have any cool pics, like the can were testing, the cad model ect
+17:22 < Rowan> ttyl
+17:22 < jtanx> has this been pushed to your (sam's) repo?
+17:22 < sam_moore> I accepted a pull request a while ago
+17:22 < sam_moore> But I noticed Rowan has two branches in his fork; there's one file changed in each branch
+17:23 < jtanx> oh ok
+17:23 < jtanx> because I don't see any change except for some css stuff in your repo
+17:24 < sam_moore> Rowan: I'll try and get in earlier tomorrow to help with the "branching" stuff in git
+17:25 < sam_moore> It looks like your git GUI might have some wierd settings
+17:28 < MctxBot> damn ircnet
+17:29 < MctxBot> 'Too many user connections (local))'
+17:29 < MctxBot> so i'll steal mctxbot for now
+17:42 -!- jtanx_ is now known as jtanx
+17:43 < jtanx> finally
+17:52 < sam_moore> So, we can implement our own login system fairly easily, I'm not sure if we want to or not, although I'm leaning towards just doing it
+17:53 < sam_moore> It wouldn'
+17:54 < sam_moore> t necessarily be the best solution in terms of flexibility
+17:54 < sam_moore> But it's probably a hell of a lot more "lightweight" than LDAP
+17:55 < sam_moore> Using LDAP you'd have to dedicate processes just to being a login server
+17:56 < sam_moore> So... we provide some wrappers around a text file of usernames and password salts, and allow "admin" to use wrappers that change the files
+17:57 < sam_moore> ... I suppose we can have a "forgot password" functionality
+17:57 < sam_moore> Though it is certainly a pain
+17:59 < sam_moore> I feel like we should have "forgot password" but make it ridiculously painful to use, for revenge
+17:59 < sam_moore> ...errr I mean security reasons
+17:59 < sam_moore> Did I say "revenge?"
+18:00 < sam_moore> "Forgot password" should activate one of the ADC channels and record the average over 10s
+18:01 < sam_moore> And you have to enter what it was
+18:01 < sam_moore> No wait, any student could do that
+18:01 < sam_moore> Hmmm
+18:03 < sam_moore> "Your password has been sent via Australia Post to your registered address"
+18:04 < jtanx> hahaha
+18:04 < jtanx> evil
+18:04 < jtanx> I was kinda hoping there was some ready made
+18:04 < jtanx> gateway software
+18:05 < jtanx> like you know the SSO services that uwa uses
+18:05 < sam_moore> Yeah, that's an LDAP gateway
+18:05 < jtanx> yeah but like a simplified version
+18:05 < sam_moore> Haha
+18:05 < jtanx> that just uses an sql database or something
+18:05 < jtanx> slap it on and we're done
+18:06 < sam_moore> Yeah I guess we should look for that
+18:06 < sam_moore> Do we allow users to change their password?
+18:06 < sam_moore> Ooh
+18:06 < sam_moore> Our system is on the UWA network...
+18:06 < sam_moore> Could we just wrap to UWA's LDAP servers?
+18:06 < sam_moore> And... um...
+18:07 < jtanx> do they trust us that much?
+18:07 < sam_moore> They can't really stop us
+18:07 < sam_moore> You can bind to the LDAP servers already
+18:07 < sam_moore> It's not like they can...
+18:07 < jtanx> really?
+18:07 < sam_moore> Put in a login or something
+18:07 < sam_moore> That you have to go through first
+18:07 < jtanx> well then
+18:07 < sam_moore> :P
+18:08 < sam_moore> Hang on, there's some horribly verbose way to test it in a shell
+18:08 < jtanx> my god why is it so hard to vertically align content in css
+18:14 < sam_moore> ldapsearch -x -D cn=20503628,ou=Students,ou=Users,ou=UWA,dc=uwads,dc=uwa,dc=edu,dc=au -h ldap.pheme.uwa.edu.au -W -v -b cn=20503628,ou=Students,ou=Users,ou=UWA,dc=uwads,dc=uwa,dc=edu,dc=au
+18:14 < sam_moore> Replace 20503628 with your own student number
+18:14 < sam_moore> So
+18:14 < sam_moore> Basically we can wrap to ldapsearch using their username and password
+18:14 < jtanx> I wonder what adrian has to say about that
+18:15 < sam_moore> Well, obviously he doesn't want just *any* student being able to access it :S
+18:15 < sam_moore> But...
+18:15 < sam_moore> We could have a plain text file of students
+18:15 < sam_moore> That he can change
+18:15 < sam_moore> Also...
+18:16 < sam_moore> UWA IT might have a problem
+18:16 < sam_moore> It would be ridiculously easy to put a back door in to steal student's passwords :S
+18:16 < jtanx> yeah
+18:16 < sam_moore> But... I guess people would just use their pheme password anyway
+18:17 < sam_moore> I mean, I would
+18:18 < sam_moore> http://xkcd.com/792/
+18:18 < sam_moore> I reckon we implement the system to bind to UWA's ldap servers, obviously don't do anything unethical
+18:19 < jtanx> :P
+18:19 < jtanx> what about jellyfish, calmaeth
+18:19 < sam_moore> And warn Adrian that if he lets random students work on this they can potentially do unethical things
+18:19 < sam_moore> What do they use for login?
+18:20 < jtanx> they roll their own I think
+18:20 < jtanx> but obviously there's some way to import users
+18:20 < sam_moore> Hmm
+18:20 < sam_moore> I like the idea of using UWA's pheme server though
+18:21 < sam_moore> Just add a list of allowed student numbers in front of it
+18:21 < sam_moore> Actually, staff as well
+18:21 < jtanx> yeah true
+18:21 < sam_moore> No wait
+18:22 < sam_moore> That could end in the staff member accidentally deleting themselves
+18:22 < sam_moore> Um...
+18:22 < sam_moore> Just hard code in Adrian's staff number as always allowed :P
+18:22 < sam_moore> Ergh, so many annoying things that have nothing to do with blowing up a pressure vessel -_-0
+18:23 < sam_moore> Ok, I'll try do some more on the login tomorrow
+18:23 < jtanx> ok cool
+18:23 < jtanx> I'll try to come in early tomorrow too
+18:23 < jtanx> though I really should be working on my other projects too...
+18:24 < sam_moore> Well, we're doing alright on the list of things Todo
+18:24 < sam_moore> Not sure how well we're doing by Adrian's standards
+18:24 < sam_moore> Oh, all that GUI stuff isn't getting done very afst
+18:24 < sam_moore> *fast
+18:24 < jtanx> yeah
+18:25 < sam_moore> Also haven't heard anything about image processing from Callum
+18:25 < jtanx> I wonder if james has done anything at all
+18:25 < sam_moore> Oh well... I'll do logins this week
+18:25 < jtanx> Adrian doesn't seem to like how most of the groups are going
+18:26 < sam_moore> Well, not much has happened with other groups I suppose
+18:26 < sam_moore> We've written a lot of software, but it's all low level
+18:26 < jtanx> I also think he underappreciates the effort required for the software though
+18:27 < sam_moore> I think so
+18:27 < sam_moore> Though we really should have more GUI stuff done
+18:28 < jtanx> yeah
+18:28 < jtanx> we really do need to make progress on that
+19:12 < jtanx> firebug slows down my computer so much
+19:22 < jtanx> ok I just updated the gui stuff a bit
+19:22 < jtanx> ...now back to testing if this pin test html page works
+19:32 < jtanx> well hey
+19:32 < jtanx> it works
+19:33 < jtanx> Should probably do reference counting on the export/unexport stuff though
+19:36 < jtanx> actually maybe not
+19:46 < sam_moore> I think DAP (which is what LDAP was based on) wasn't actually meant to be a login system when they designed it :P
+19:46 < sam_moore> But it's used for that more than anything else
+19:46 < sam_moore> Essentially it was supposed to be like an electronic telephone directory
+19:47 < sam_moore> Then they realised that it was a bad idea for any random person to be able to edit stuff, so authentication got added to it
+19:47 < sam_moore> And now it's pretty much just used for authentication
+19:48 < sam_moore> There seems to be a sane C library for it, so if we just implement a client and rely on the good IT staff at UWA to keep pheme working...
+19:49 < sam_moore> (Does UWA even still hire IT staff?)
+19:49 < sam_moore> (Someone told me they "integrated" the librarians into IT)
+19:50 < sam_moore> We'll need to put our login page under HTTPS at some point
+19:52 < jtanx> I was just thinking
+19:53 < jtanx> put the whole damn thing under ssl
+19:53 < jtanx> and be done with it
+19:54 < jtanx> hmm interesting
+19:54 < jtanx> if you query the adc on different channels
+19:55 < jtanx> and you query too fast
+19:55 < jtanx> it'll spit back that it's temporarily unavailable
+19:55 < jtanx> probably can't change the mux that fast?
+19:56 < sam_moore> Maybe
+19:56 < sam_moore> It's kind of ironic that the ADC hardware has a multiplexer to give the extra channels
+19:57 < sam_moore> And then we are sticking another multiplexer on that
+19:57 < jtanx> :P
+19:57 < sam_moore> But I suppose if it means we don't need 4 of the same amplifier that's nice
+20:03 < jtanx> ok well the pintest page works good enough
+20:04 < jtanx> some race conditions
+20:04 < jtanx> but eh
+20:04 < jtanx> who cares
+20:04 < jtanx> ohhh I know what's slowing down the bb
+20:04 < jtanx> bbb*
+20:04 < jtanx> the crazy high sampling rate
+20:04 < jtanx> the test files also constantly eat up all the space on my 1gb sd card
+20:06 < jtanx> ..or maybe not
+20:57 < sam_moore> It turns out UWA uses LDAP to keep track of what units you're enrolled in
+20:57 < sam_moore> That's interesting...
+20:58 < sam_moore> Potentially we could restrict access to people enrolled in MXTC3420
+20:58 < sam_moore> That would mess with the new courses :P
+20:59 < sam_moore> And it appears you can connect to ldap.pheme.uwa.edu.au from UWA's network
+20:59 < sam_moore> But... it also appears to use the unsecured LDAP port?
+20:59 < sam_moore> Surely not
+20:59 < jtanx> what
+21:00 < sam_moore> Or maybe (hopefully) they are doing TLS
+21:00 < sam_moore> http://wiki.wireshark.org/LDAP
+21:00 < jtanx> one would hope that there's some sort of encryption going on
+21:00 < sam_moore> Well, there's HTTPS on the SSO page
+21:01 < sam_moore> But if there isn't actually encryption on the ldap connection
+21:01 < sam_moore> You could just plug into a switch and do some packet sniffing and get everyone's passwords :O
+21:01 < jtanx> haha wow
+21:02 < sam_moore> I think they might be using TLS, because my test program doesn't work
+21:07 < sam_moore> ... Or I'm just deleting one more character than I should be in the password -_
+21:11 < sam_moore> Test program works now
+21:11 < sam_moore> Either the ldap library kindly handles TLS for you automagically, or they aren't using it
+21:12 < jtanx> :S
+21:12 < jtanx> if you used wireshark wouldn't it show whether or not it's encrypted
+21:16 < sam_moore> I've just run it through wireshark
+21:16 < sam_moore> It's not encrypted
+21:17 < sam_moore> My password for pheme appears plain as day
+21:17 < jtanx> well that sounds dodgy as hell
+21:18 < sam_moore> Well, you do have to have root access to a machine that can pick up the traffic
+21:18 < sam_moore> But yes, that sounds dodgy
+21:18 < sam_moore> Hang, on a minute
+21:18 < sam_moore> What about Unifi
+21:19 < sam_moore> Well...
+21:19 < sam_moore> I think this should be filed under "Not our problem"
+21:20 < jtanx> ._.
+21:21 < sam_moore> Surely there's some kind of handshake encryption on Unifi though
+21:22 < sam_moore> Anyway, I have a test function that returns true if you can login to pheme, so if we integrate that with our code and maybe modify it to look at enrolled units, that's a good start
+21:23 < sam_moore> Actually I also need to make it work without using deprecated functions
+21:25 < sam_moore> At least the library maintainers still keep the deprecated functions, but it's annoying when something that works perfectly fine and has tonnes of documentation is replaced by something that has almost no documentation
+21:25 < sam_moore> Almost like the new UWA courses...
+21:25 < jtanx> hahaha
+21:25 < jtanx> what's worse is where the new function is a PITA to use by design
+21:26 < sam_moore> Yes
+21:27 < sam_moore> The "deprecated" version has "LDAP * ld = ldap_init(host, port); ldap_set_options(ld, LDAP_OPT_PROTOCOL_VERSION, &version); and ldap_bind_s(ld, dn, password, authentication_method);"
+21:27 < sam_moore> That makes perfect sense to me
+21:27 < sam_moore> No doubt the new and improved version takes 100x as much code
+21:28 < sam_moore> Although admittedly I was confused as to why the ldap_set_options required a pointer to the integer instead of just passing the integer
+21:28 < sam_moore> It probably modifies it in some cases though
+21:31 < jtanx> which package installs ldap
+21:31 < sam_moore> libldap2-dev
+21:31 < jtanx> thanks
+21:31 < sam_moore> For development libraries
+21:32 < sam_moore> ldap-utils for tools like ldapsearch
+21:32 < sam_moore> At the moment I can only find documentation for libldap-dev (the deprecated stuff)
+21:32 < sam_moore> To get it to work, you just put a #define LDAP_DEPRECATED 1 before the #include <ldap.h>
+21:33 < jtanx> http://man.devl.cz/deb/l/libldap2-dev ?
+21:33 < sam_moore> Oh, well there you go
+21:33 < sam_moore> Thanks
+21:34 < sam_moore> No wait, it has all those functions the compiler was complaining about
+21:34 < sam_moore> ?
+21:34 < jtanx> ok then
+21:34 < sam_moore> Except there's this fsfuncLDAP instead of LDAP
+21:36 < sam_moore> ...
+21:36 < jtanx> oh that documentaiton is so terrible: http://www.openldap.org/doc/
+21:37 < jtanx> the html version is at least
+21:37 < sam_moore> Yeah
+21:38 < sam_moore> Um... given that the only documentation for libldap2 documents the "deprecated" functions, I'm going to continue using those functions
+21:39 < sam_moore> Installing libldap2-dev installed all those man pages
+21:39 < jtanx> yep
+21:39 < jtanx> >.>
+21:41 < jtanx> ldap_init(3) was obsoleted by ldap_initialize(3)
+21:41 < jtanx> http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-bugs/200509/msg00151.html
+21:42 < sam_moore> Seriously
+21:43 < sam_moore> Please tell me they changed more than just the name...
+21:44 < sam_moore> Oh great, they did, now I need to work out how to use it
+21:44 < jtanx> int ldap_initialize(ldp, uri)
+21:44 < jtanx> LDAP **ldp;
+21:44 < jtanx> char *uri;
+21:44 < jtanx> wow, that's old school way of specifying the type of the input arguments
+21:45 < jtanx> I've only seen that style once elsewhere
+21:45 < jtanx> In code from the ~1990s
+21:45 < sam_moore> LDAP was invented in the 80s
+21:45 < sam_moore> So that would make sense
+21:45 < jtanx> you'd think they'd update the manpages by now though
+21:46 < sam_moore> They don't even note in the man page that ldap_init is depreated
+21:46 < jtanx> yeah
+21:46 < jtanx> the joys of poor documentation
+21:46 < sam_moore> At least the function names make sense
+21:46 < sam_moore> initialize
+21:47 < sam_moore> Obvious what that does
+21:47 < sam_moore> ... I think the "uri" includes the port
+21:47 < sam_moore> Like "ldap://server" or "ldaps://server"
+21:47 < jtanx> yep
+21:48 < jtanx> the whole ldap_init vs ldap_initialize reminds me of fopen vs fopen_s on windows
+21:48 < sam_moore> That's going to screw with anyone that puts their ldap server on a non-standard port for security-by-obscurity reasons
+21:48 < jtanx> couldn't you do
+21:48 < jtanx> ldap://server:port
+21:48 < sam_moore> Oh
+21:48 < sam_moore> Probably
+21:56 < sam_moore> Sigh... they deprecated ldap_bind and made ldap_simple_bind and then at some point that got deprecated too
+21:57 < sam_moore> Now it's ldap_sasl_bind_s
+21:57 < jtanx> what's with that naming convention
+21:57 < sam_moore> sasl stands for something
+21:57 < jtanx> _s for secure
+21:57 < jtanx> yey
+21:57 < sam_moore> The LDAP expert at UCC was basically like "It's terrible, no one ever uses it, but the LDAP standards wanted to put it in, so it's there"
+21:57 < sam_moore> And that's all I know
+21:58 < jtanx> gee ok
+21:59 < sam_moore> But as opposed to ldap_simple_bind(ld, dn, password)
+21:59 < sam_moore> You have something like 10 arguments?
+21:59 < sam_moore> Please let half of them be NULL...
+22:12 < jtanx> that's all for today
+22:12 < jtanx> bye
+22:12 -!- jtanx [
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+23:19 < sam_moore> Hi Rowan
+23:19 < Rowan> hello
+23:19 < sam_moore> I'm working on getting logins with UWA's pheme system
+23:19 < sam_moore> So it will be kind of like LMS
+23:24 < Rowan> are we trying to keep the gui to only a few pages or can we use several.
+23:25 < Rowan> like a cover page(a link to just the stream, a link to dump data and a login). then the login page goes to the experiment page
+23:26 < sam_moore> I think several pages
+23:26 < sam_moore> Probably even one page per sensor?
+23:26 < Rowan> sweet, i shall enjoy this gui :)
+23:41 < sam_moore> See you tomorrow
+23:47 < Rowan> yep
+--- Day changed Mon Sep 30 2013
+11:17 < sam_moore> Hi Rowan, do you have anything we should put in the report?
+11:59 < Rowan> ill have the outline of all the pages i wanted on git this afternoon
+12:05 < sam_moore> Ok
+13:33 < Rowan> so far i have a cover page which links to a login page which links to the index page. but theres no styles for them and no security on the login
+14:09 < Rowan> im not sure the files ive added went into sams git. im pretty sure they all forked over to mine. :S
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